Indexing and Page File on SSD

Tekno Venus

Tekno Venus

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I have just upgraded my system to a dual drive system - one SSD and one HDD.

My SSD is a Samsung 840 EVO 250GB.

Now, I have been reading some conflicting advice regarding the Page File and file Indexing.

Currently, I have indexing enabled and a variable size 400-2048MB page file on the SSD only:

Screenshot - 17_02_2014 , 09_18_57 PM.png

SSD users - how have you got your page file and indexing set up? Am I OK with this, or should I change it?

Hibernation is also enabled to allow the Windows 8 Fast Start feature - any thoughts on this?

-Stephen
 
I have both disabled on my ssd, I didn't notice a drop in performance.

It was mostly done to save space and prevent extra writes.
 
Thanks. :)

Would moving the page file to my HDD be a good idea do you think?
 
I have it disabled on my ssd... with 16GB of ram I don't know if I ever extend beyond that.

Note, this was also to save space :)

My hdd is still paged but, not sure it does anything.
 
It all really depends on your usage :)

Using W7x64 on 2x SSD + HDD systems here, no Indexing/Libraries, my data lives where I put it, on the secondary (SSD on 1, HDD on the other) drive, easy to find. Search Everything or Agent Ransack are used on the very rare occasions I need to search for specifics, like inside file contents.

8GB of RAM on both machines so I've set fixed 100MB paging files on all SSDs and variable 100 - 1024MB on the HDDs. It's very rare that my main gets above 300MB Currently allocated, it never exceeds the base level (200MB) on my 2nd rig, it's not used hard enough over long periods.

Yours is a notebook, hibernation is probably a good idea.

With 6GB RAM and SSD + HDD, I'd try 100 on the SSD and 250-1024 on the HDD and keep a close eye on the currently allocated figure, if it only rises above 350 during rare periods with very heavy usage, it should be fine. If, during heavy usage, you get a program suddenly disappear or random oddities, check the Currently allocated figure with a view to raising the max figure on the HDD.
 
Hi Satrow,

Thanks for the advice! I actually added a little more RAM when I put the SSD in, meaning I now have 8GB system RAM. I have updated my system specs accordingly.

Indexing is now disabled on the SSD, but I've left it switched on for the HDD to speed things up when searching for documents.

A 100MB PF is now set on the SSD, with a 250-1024MB PF on the HDD. I will keep an eye on it and see what happens when I have some VM's running or doing some Photoshop work.

Hibernation is also on still - it speeds up boot even more!

Thanks again!

Stephen
 
I think there's some confusion here, and some misconceptions based on obsolete, superseded information and inaccurate perceptions.
Would moving the page file to my HDD be a good idea do you think?
Click to expand...

Absolutely NOT!!!!! SSDs are the perfect place to put your page file. See SSD FAQs, Should the pagefile be placed on SSDs? (almost 1/2 way down the page).

I also see absolutely no reason to disable indexing when using a modern OS (W7 - 8.1). We MUST let go of XP and stop stereotyping W7 and W8 based on problems with XP. W7 and W8 are not XP. Indexing in XP was horrible. Indexing in W7 and W8 is not the same as XP. In W7/8/8.1 indexing has been highly refined to minimize impact on performance while indexing (stepping way into the background when the user is NOT idle).

But most importantly, we much realize that, BY FAR the most significant impact caused by Indexing is when Indexing a drive for the first time - NOT forever thereafter. Once indexing of a drive is complete, all indexing must do after that is keep track of any changes - and that takes next to nothing in system resources.

It was mostly done to save space and prevent extra writes.
Click to expand...
If a small SSD and already low on free disk space, then saving space may be important, but it is important to note again, this is not XP and that PF size management in W7 and W8 is NOT the same as with XP. If you are not using your SSD for PF due to a lack of free disk space, I HIGHLY URGE you to free up space or buy more space and then move your PF to the SSD. And let Windows manage the size - and I don't care how much RAM you have.

It is also important to note that today's SSDs do NOT suffer from the limited writes problems of first generation SSDs. Limiting the number of writes is no longer required and IMO, stifles a significant advantage for using SSDs in the first place.

Remember, there have been SSD-only notebooks for several years now and more and more PCs are being built with SSDs only (including this one).
 
VMs and heavy PS work will probably mean big paging files/scratch disk usage, you might want to consider using a medium-fast 2-4GB SDCard, assuming your notebook has the needed slot, for another paging file. Yes, it might wear it out prematurely and it's going to be slow, probably rarely accessed - Windows will use the fastest swap medium available - but it may give you more versatility and longer up times - even if the only cached files used from it are small, randomly accessed ones.

There used to be 3x spindle notebooks (Desktop replacements, switch the DVD for the 3rd HDD) available back before SATA became the norm, I'm unsure if there are any modern ones or if they can be bought at a reasonable cost.

If your desk bound when doing the heavy lifting, an external (USB3/eSATA/Firewire) drive could be used for the extra page/scratch. Or perhaps there's a good docking station available with extra HDD slots. Again, more cost.



Bill, I have absolutely no reason to use either Indexing or a 12GB page file on my System SSD here; the Currently allocated figure gives my PF usage, if it's within my maximum allocated figure with a reasonable amount of headroom left when the System is working hard, then that's fine by me - RAM and SSD's are there to be used to their best potential, no point in wasting costly drive space when RAM should be doing the heavy lifting. I know my own usage pretty well, one size does not fit all.
 
I'm am getting incredibly frustrated with this now....

For the past few hours the system has slowed dramatically, and searching is taking a long time. Whenever I typed something into start to find it, it would hang, and CPU usage would go up to about 20% on explorer.exe.

So I enable indexing again. However, I don't think it was working properly to start with...

If I right click the drives in Computer, the indexing checkbox is checked.

However....

Indexing is apparently not running:
Screenshot - 18_02_2014 , 03_15_55 PM.png

Trying to enable indexing Samsung Magician results in an error.

Trying to enable with WSearch service results in an error too:
Screenshot - 18_02_2014 , 03_17_59 PM.png

Still getting CPU spikes after searching for something:
Screenshot - 18_02_2014 , 03_19_23 PM.png


Any thoughts?

Getting close to formatting and starting again, I've had quite a few issues so far.... I really should be doing some revision - but that's hard when my computer isn't working right and me being me, I have to fix it!

Stephen
 
I know my own usage pretty well, one size does not fit all.
Click to expand...
Exactly! And that is why Windows managed page files (with W7 and W8) does not use a one-size fits all PF, or even a fixed size PF. Our system environments are constantly changing - a modern Windows will vary the PF size as needed.

The problem with users setting a fixed size (even if they properly analyzed their VM use) is that is just a snapshot analysis. Tomorrow or next week your environment and VM usage may change. Letting Windows manage the size accounts for that.

If you set your PF manually and don't regularly revisit your VM use and adjust the PF size accordingly, you are doing yourself a disservice.

RAM and SSD's are there to be used to their best potential
Click to expand...
Agreed. And putting the PF on the SSD takes advantage of that potential.
no point in wasting costly drive space when RAM should be doing the heavy lifting.
Click to expand...
How is it wasted if there is still plenty of space for Windows to operate in? If 12Gb of disk space is that critical, you need to buy more space.

Also, I feel you believe forcing Windows to use RAM instead of the PF is a good thing. It is not.

Understanding the Windows Pagefile and Why You Shouldn't Disable It

So sorry. I know there are some real Windows experts here, but the PhDs and supercomputers at MS are pretty sharp too. Unless you have advanced compsci degrees, I doubt anyone here is capable of properly sizing their PF, AND keeping it properly sized with the environment.

As for Indexing, that is more of a "convenience" feature rather than a performance feature. If you don't have a need to quickly find things on your drives, or if you have installed an alternative indexing/search feature on your computer, then turn Indexing off. But frankly, I don't see any advantage doing so.
 
I don't use Indexing, Stephen, so zero experience with troubleshooting it. Even though I too have a Samsung SSD, Magician is only ever active when I decide to run it (it has something of a hit on boot time activity as well).

I'd want to check Permissions and load Process Explorer to look for any oddities/further clues before hitting the secure erase feature - my install is effectively an upgraded W7 Public beta#1 - I enjoy the challenge and have other machines to fall back on should the system get completely borked - you, on the other hand, have other priorities. Tough call.
 
I uninstalled Samsung Magician. That program made a bunch of unwanted changes to my system. It turned off all sleep modes so my system would not go to sleep. Why? Samsung said to improve load times when I return to my computer. Okay, but really? My system boots from totally off in less than 15 seconds, and from sleep in 10 seconds.

What really irritated me is to improve performance, it changed my security setting that requires me to enter my PW when starting (or waking) Windows. Not cool.

I did not notice any performance improvement when I installed Samsung Magician, and I did not notice any degradation when I uninstalled it.
 
satrow said:
I don't use Indexing, Stephen, so zero experience with troubleshooting it. Even though I too have a Samsung SSD, Magician is only ever active when I decide to run it (it has something of a hit on boot time activity as well).

I'd want to check Permissions and load Process Explorer to look for any oddities/further clues before hitting the secure erase feature - my install is effectively an upgraded W7 Public beta#1 - I enjoy the challenge and have other machines to fall back on should the system get completely borked - you, on the other hand, have other priorities. Tough call.
Click to expand...

Hi Andy,

I've also disabled magician from boot - I did find it had an impact.

ProcExp doesn't seem to show very much interesting. Just done a ProcMon trace too, didn't spot anything useful...

Normally I also like troubleshooting. But on a clean install like this, and the fact I should have finished this yesterday morning....

OK, just loaded up event viewer....

Code: 
The Windows Search service terminated with the following error: 
Access is denied.

Code: 
The Windows Search service terminated unexpectedly. It has done this 38 time(s).

There are 788 instances of that error.

:banghead:
 
So, I've managed to get indexing working again. Currently rebuilding the index - but it seems to be working better now.

I will leave indexing enabled on both drives!!
 
Sounds like Indexing was trying to index folders where it didn't have the correct Permissions? Glad to see you're making progress again now!
 
Seems like it. The windows search troubleshooter seemed to fix that.

Still debating whether to wipe and start again. This amount of problems on a clean install isn't right...

Regarding the PF, my current settings are as follows:

Screenshot - 18_02_2014 , 04_35_29 PM.png

I may change them and move more of my PF to the SSD - I'm not sure atm.
 
Current PF usage is still below the minimum set, you won't get much of a feel for how much it might need increasing/changing location until you've loaded it up and checked again.

Yes, an hour spent updating and tweaking post-install normally results in a rock-solid system that does only what's needed, your problems don't sound very promising for long-term stability.
 

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