Networking Heaven or....

Anthony N

Anthony N

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Posts
619
Location
Michigan, USA
Ok, so for those that have viewed this: my several month office remodel. Know all to well that I have absolute fun with doing all sorts new designs and over coming wiring wonders to make stuff work correctly even if the route I take isn't the simplest.

With that being said, we have a network issue that I'd like to bring to the table. You see we are huge wireless printing fans, however our printers lose connection with the network time to EMI and while the network is operating correctly packets just ... well they vanish in transmission. This is seen mostly when the things like the microwave is on or the large refrigerator is on. My mini fridge doesn't seem to have an effect on it.

So we need a solution, We've thought about employing a wi-fi extender. However that effects the security level of the network. So my next option of which I really don't agree with is to buy another router and set it up as an adhoc (access point).

The help would be greatly appreciated!
 
How do you know this is a EMI/RFI problem?

While interference from microwave ovens, refrigerators, and other high-wattage appliances and other high speed digital devices is not uncommon, it is still not supposed to happen in a properly wired facility and properly operating appliances and electronics. Interference in crowded wireless environments (large apartment complexes, for example) are not uncommon either.

But, safety first, and therefore the first place I would look is facility wiring and grounding. Every household should have a AC Outlet Tester. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Walmart.

With one of these, you can ensure your outlets are correctly wired and provide a decent ground to Earth. If the tester reports an open ground or reversed hot and neutral, you need to have a certified electrician in there to sort that out.

The next thing I would do is try to relocate wires and distant ends (the wirelessly connected devices) so their paths (including the "line-of-sight" wireless path) don't run near or through those high wattage appliances. Wireless network performance is greatly affected by the number and content of walls, ceilings, and floors in between the endpoints. By content, I mean the construction (brick, wallboard, wood or metal studs) and if the barrier contains wires and/or metal pipes.

Have you tried a different wireless channel?

A wireless extender is typically used to extend the range, not boost power - so you can connect beyond 300 feet or so. I don't see an extender increasing security concerns any more than using wireless already does.

What happens if you physically move the printers closer to the WAP (wireless access point)?
 
Digerati, a few things, I'm just going to nit pick your post apart.

Let's start from the top. Routers from Netgear ship defaulted with Auto on it's channel lineup. They also ship with wireless protection disabled. While I'm the household geek, my other family members are well in tune so everything is We, Our, ect, not myself or I.

Second we know what a wireless extender/repeater is. Just as the name implies, takes the signal and repeats it, with two catches, (with the model we had before we threw it away) serious connectivity issues and we had to lower our security from WPA2 to WPA for it to work.

As for location of equipment, no we are landlocked where equipment needs to be. So the network has to be brought to them. My mother does not want Ethernet cable running all over the house so wireless is the only way. (This is personal to me) I refuse to go with powerline networking.

As for EMI, don't ask us, we were informed of this by 3 different computer stores and Linksys, Cisco, and Netgear. We understand Linksys is a Cisco company but they cater to businesses.

Lastly, Digerati, you and I never really get along, I appreciate all your help. But for the love of sake, lighten up a bit. Good grief you're monotonous and long winded.

I understand you are writing to all viewers, but some of your viewers already have a handy grasp. -- One more note, I'll admit networking isn't my cup of tea, never will be. There's more Greek in it than a cup of yogurt. (for those that get the pun).

As for hot and neutral being reversed. This was tested for the last time this office was remodeled. (prior to the mini-fridge addition)

Now before I become long-winded I'm going to shut up. All we ask for is the best equipment solution. Weather we spend the extra cash and go with an access point, an extender, or go through the pain staking trouble of setting up a secondary router as an access point or as I've suggested to the family several times a more powerful N-router with dual band support. I'm getting my gigabit transmission speeds back one way or another.
 
Lastly, Digerati, you and I never really get along, I appreciate all your help. But for the love of sake, lighten up a bit. Good grief you're monotonous and long winded.
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Wow, you ask for help then launch a personal affront when you get it.

We don't get along? I don't even know who you are - I focus on the issues, not the person. But with responses like yours, I can see why.

Good luck with your problem and rest assured, I will give your posts from now on, all the attention they deserve.
 
Heyyy! Don't make me separate you two! :lol:

Anthony, there isn't a lot you can do if it's signal interference other than a setting or 2 in your router. A lot of consumer devices use the 2.4 GHz frequencies and you can either remove the offending devices or try and relocate farther away from them. If you can't do either, you're kind of stuck. Digerati's other suggestions regarding construction/obstacles are all legitimate concerns, too. Also, a repeater or range extender is not going to fix a signal interference issue.

If you have a Netgear router, post the model and I'll try and take a look at the available settings. If you log into the router and go to the Wireless Settings page, you might have a "Mode" option. Try setting it to 150 Mbps to maintain a more reliable connection. The other thing to do is download a program like inSSIDER so you can see what other WiFi networks are close to you and what channels they're on. You'll want to manually set your router's channel to one with the least amount of overlap or use by other routers. I have one office that can pick up 24 different wireless networks and they've run into the same problems with signal dropouts.

I always recommend hard wiring any devices you can, if you can, as a first preference. It's not hard to run CAT 5 cable and install wall jacks, especially if it's a new office. Or you can run panduit if you want to go outside a wall to keep it nice and neat. If wireless is your only preference, you're stuck with the limitations of the wireless standard.
 
I have no Windows OS on any of my computers, inSSIDer hated my desktop it doesn't run on my netbook, go figure. My Mother's desktop is using a Wireless to Ethernet device.

My dad's laptop ... Well that has a storage issue that needs to be worked out but that has more things wrong with it that I cannot disclose.

I had inSSIDer on my cellphone for a bit.

But I have another app I like a LOT more, and it refreshes a lot faster. I'll take a walk-through with it and take screenshots and upload them later today for you guys.

Wireless is ... Blank blankity blank blank... Took a while to realize that wireless bandwidth drops as it transmits packets especially large ones.

Also that Wireless is radial not direct.

After talking to friends that play on their game systems wirelessly across the hall from my office. They have improved signal since I changed everything over though everyone on the mainfloor below me has affected signal.

My cellphone sees a 40% drop, my mom's desktop is 80% but she jumps on the web and starts loading websites the computer can't make up its mind if it has internet or not, it's all over the board from 60% to 13% to nada and has to be restarted to see a connection again. My dad's laptop floats 90% to 75% during a windows backup it drops to 60%. I've also noticed both computers have big time problems with the Florescent lights in operation and the other devices in operation, such as the Fridge and microwave. there is a wireless landline above the computer but it doesn't seem to bug the wireless, so I'm assuming it's on a different channel from the router.

Speaking of channels I am on channel 11, with no overlap.

But it's bedtime here, I will post those screenshots sometime today.
 
Anthony, none of that info helps troubleshoot your problem. InSSIDer isn't a big program and should install w/o problems on a Windows, MAC or Android device, unless you have a verrry old computer. It doesn't matter what channel your router is on unless you can tell the channel & signal strength of neighboring routers. InSSIDer also has a better way of measuring signal strength if you are trying to connect to your network beyond it's capabilities. It's also helpful to see disconnects as they happen.

There's really no such thing as a large packet issue, it's a wireless connection issue. All data is broken down and transmitted into mostly equal sized packets of about 1500 bytes in size. I'd need a screenshot of InSSIDer and the model of your router before I can give you anything else useful.
 
That's great. Looking at the screenshots it appears you have a weak signal in the location of the troubled wireless device - that's the first thing I'd try fixing. -73db is a poor signal and that would explain the disconnects or slow transfers. Try moving the router around as much as you can. Ideally, you'd like to bring it closer to the dead spot, up higher on a bookshelf as opposed to sitting on the floor, and further away from a wall. You can use InSSIder to check if the signal strength improves. A signal less than -60db should be a big improvement

If you aren't able to move the router any closer or hardwire the dead spot, then your only other option is something like this range extender. If you want to make sure it's a poor signal issue, bring the wireless device closer to the router and use it for a while - see if the device performs better.
 
Thank you much Fred. We have came to a conclusion. We are going to ditch the old router for a dual-band one. Furthermore we are getting a Dual-band repeater to extend coverage to the main floor. This will be a muilt-step process, but well worth it in the end. We are also introducing a wider range of computers as well. So I will have a switch to deploy in my office.

My current desktop I am going to wipe clean and turn into a streaming desktop, (however I may build my own just because then I know what went into it)

As for my office, I will actually be building one computer for backup purposes and one for my main system.

I've tossed around smart TV's (Going to 32") and I find that I might use my bluray player for those apps. Plus there is some savings from a non-smart TV.

None the less I have a lot on my plate and now days networking has to be top notch.

Speaking of which, I've also determined in my new house (if I do buy existing I'm going to gut the house and do it my way.) or if I'm building new, I'm going to have these things pre-installed (cat-5 cable, maybe cat-6) and a dedicated room that all my computers (servers) and media equipment can be stored in.
 
If you switch to a dual band router, your devices need to be able to see a 5GHz network to make use of it.
 

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