The Great Mask and Vaccination Debate of 2021

andrewlen

andrewlen

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Victoria, Australia
The current pandemic we're all facing seems to have divided many people into two distinct camps. Those that support face masks and getting vaccinated, and those that don't.

Personally, I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and say that I'm convinced a face mask, virtually any commercially available face mask, will offer protection to others and I'll support that statement with the following video I first saw at another forum.


Seems pretty conclusive and believable to me.

I've also had my first vaccination shot of Astra Zeneca a week before going in for recent surgery and my only complaint was the same as any other needle I've ever gotten - my arm hurt a bit for about an hour. Other than that - nothing. Same for my wife and everyone else I know in my own circle of friends.

I'm curious about others feelings and convictions at this forum.

Are you a pro masker, anti-masker or don't give a hoot either way?

How about the vaccine jab? Pro or against?

Hoping we can keep this friendly and respect each others views while debating.

Please discuss :)

Best, Andrew
 
I go with the science, which means masking and vaccination are both unquestionably necessary. Masking now far more so with the Delta Variant which has higher breakthrough infection rates, making those who are vaccinated potential asymptomatic carriers and infection vectors for the unvaccinated.

I'm one of the few people I know that are of the J&J single-shot immunization group. Happened back in March. So far, so good, and I've been careful since the start of all of this.
 
I also go with the science. And I get my Pfizer booster day after tomorrow! :)

I have two big issues with those who refuse to get vaccinated. First, many, not all, but many refuse because they don't believe the news and don't trust the government. So where do they get their information? Facebook. :( So they end up basing their opinions and rationalizing their decisions on misinformation, nonsense, or total lies. I don't understand this.

My second issue is that many who refuse to get vaccinated are also the same people who refuse to wear a mask out in public places where others are around. And in my opinion, those people are simply selfish, self-centered, menaces to society.

If they claim it is one of their rights, they are clueless. Freedom is not free!

Then there are those who wear a mask in their cars when they are the only people in their cars. I don't get that either.
 
Digerati said:
Then there are those who wear a mask in their cars when they are the only people in their cars. I don't get that either.
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Nor do I. But, I can explain at least some of it. I often wear my mask in the car if I'm going from store to store and their parking lots are mere moments away from one another. It's more bother to doff and don the mask again than just to wear it. If I'm wearing my hearing aids even more so, as the darned mask bands very often get behind the aid and either pop it out entirely or at least pose a small battle to disentangle the two.

But other than that, in the car, the mask is off.
 
Sounds like everyone is pretty much of the same view so far.

I'm of the same view when driving in my car. I don't mask up but I do keep the windows up, more so because of my COPD as I don't want whatever is outside blowing into my space like crazy.

Having to wear glasses doesn't help either, they constantly fog up if I forget to put anti-fog on them before leaving home.

I don't understand the mentality of people behaving like this back in Feb of this year.


That type of self-righteous rebellious behaviour really gets my blood boiling.

I'd like to get them all into a room now and ask them to respond to the current infected and death figures in the USA that I find heartbreaking to read.

United States COVID: 39,848,563 Cases and 655,572 Deaths - Worldometer

So many good and innocent people fallen and yet we still have those who think it's their god-given right to wander around amongst others without wearing a mask, not knowing if they're infected, carriers of the virus or what.

Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.
 
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Desperate times call for desperate measures but I'd hate to be in her shoes if her husband dies as a result. It will be very interesting to read about the result.
 
Never considered hearing aids. But I will say I have flung my glasses across the floor while removing my mask. :(
 
What terrifies me about that Ohio situation is that a judge has stepped into an arena, and at a very direct level, absent any clinical expertise and ordering quackery. If it were some alternate treatment that were experimental, that would be another thing entirely, but this?!

What a horrific precedent to set!
 
I can really see this snowballing.

What happens if that patient dies after treatment with that anti-parasitic drug approved for use with livestock? Ambulance chasers will convince her to sue those doctors and the hospital and that in turn will force doctors and hospitals to increase their malpractice insurance. And then what happens? Those additional costs get passed back down on us.
 
Digerati said:
I can really see this snowballing.
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When it comes to Covid, and passing on of costs, we already have a Jupiter-sized snowball. The costs for the months-long treatment, regardless of the outcome, is passed along to the taxpayer, those who've purchased health insurance (regardless of "purchase" method - employers purchase), or both.

Having worked in brain injury services for some years, I've heard the arguments against seatbelt and helmet laws that are directly analogous to those insisting that mask and vaccine mandates are absolute infringements on individual rights. In both cases, it's pure BS. In the case of injuries/illness and long-term consequences of horrific vehicle accidents and Covid are all borne, in largest part, by government, which means all of us. Individuals affected in the common ways by accidents where they're thrown or ejected virtually always end up in death or long-term disability, and the latter means Medicaid, public assistance, etc. The long-term negative outcomes of Covid have yet to be fully revealed, but even my brother, who was really healthy before, and still is pretty healthy post-Covid, is a long Covid case where he has occasional problems breathing. This affects his ability to work, among other things.

You, the generic you, do not have the right to put your personal freedoms above and beyond those of everyone else. With rights come corresponding responsibilities, and there are very few rights that are absolute, nor should there be. It's not all about you, and you alone.
 
britechguy said:
When it comes to Covid, and passing on of costs, we already have a Jupiter-sized snowball.
Click to expand...
That's different. Those are, more or less, expected costs. Not to mention, "investments" since it is better/cheaper to prevent rather than treat (and bury).

But getting sued for malpractice, or worse, just having to absorb the costs for malpractice insurance is above and beyond normal tax payer costs.
 
Just in general terms, a Judge should be impartial, governed only by laws. The idea that a Judge lets their personal beliefs decide their rulings, no matter what the subject is chilling. The fact a non medical person would go against the guidance of the CDC to push their crackpot beliefs is downright criminal. Ideology and religion should play zero part in judicial matters.

A Guy
 
A Guy said:
Just in general terms, a Judge should be impartial, governed only by laws. The idea that a Judge lets their personal beliefs decide their rulings
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Sadly, this happens every day.
A Guy said:
For me if someone makes an informed decision not to get a vaccine (very difficult as the science backs the vaccines) then OK, but wear your mask at least

It's the "I don't know what's in it, I won't be taking it!! Now where's my Horse dewormer medicine..."

Makes me wonder if the human race will make it...

Ohio judge orders hospital to treat COVID patient with Ivermectin despite CDC warnings

A Guy
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Here's the clinical pharmacology on Ivermectin. I can't figure out the ingredient that would prompt a person to use an anti-parasitic for a virus. This drug doesn't have any carcinogenesis research much less anti-viral research.

At what point did a person think, "hmmm, I think I'll take this for COVID"?
 
xrobwx71 said:
At what point did a person think, "hmmm, I think I'll take this for COVID"?
Click to expand...

Presuming thought, in any meaningful sense of the word, in regard to this crackpot quackery is a fraught proposition indeed.

I really did love the CDC's own message regarding ivermectin which was (paraphrased): "You're not a horse. You're not a cow. Y'all need to stop taking this!"
 
britechguy said:
Presuming thought, in any meaningful sense of the word, in regard to this crackpot quackery is a fraught proposition indeed.

I really did love the CDC's own message regarding ivermectin which was (paraphrased): "You're not a horse. You're not a cow. Y'all need to stop taking this!"
Click to expand...
I'm still stuck on "COVID is not a worm".

I saw an article at a glance and the headline was COVID19 is sentient. I don't know the exact speed of my brain making a decision not to read that article, but it was damn fast.

It was in a feed as I was perusing the location of the Metallica show I'm going to in November. (Mercedes-Benz Arena)
 
It appears that masks are going to be even more important with the discovery of the latest variant, called the "mu" variant. From WHO adds mu as latest coronavirus variant of interest:

The World Health Organization has identified another coronavirus variant that may have the ability to evade vaccine protections.

The B.1.621 variant, also known as the “mu” variant, was first identified in Colombia in January 2021. WHO officially labeled mu as a variant of interest (VOI) on Aug. 30, according to its Weekly Epidemiological Update published Tuesday.

“The Mu variant has a constellation of mutations that indicate potential properties of immune escape,” the organization wrote, noting that vaccinated individuals appear to show a “reduction in neutralization capacity” against mu. WHO added that these “potential properties” may have similarities to those observed in the beta variant.
Click to expand...
 
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