[SOLVED] CPU/PSU Fan Spin For a Second and Stop on New Build

[writhziden]

Alright, I have an update on progress. I have removed one RAM module, and no blue screens in a few days. That does not mean anything since it typically takes 2-3 weeks for a blue screen to occur again, so that is not why I am posting; i am just providing information as to what I have done recently as part of troubleshooting.

Now for the reason I am posting: I went to start my computer today and the mouse would not show up on the screen. Tried unplugging, plugging it back in, and still no mouse. The mouse uses USB if that matters.

To fix the mouse issue, I decided to restart the system. It started back up but still no mouse. I then decided to shut down the system. That is when the fun began.


Upon shutting down, Windows would shut down normally, but then the system would turn right back on and boot up. It did this three times. I finally hit the power button when the system began to POST so I could get it to physically turn off.

Then the system would not turn back on. I could not power it on with the power button. I reached to the back, clicked the power supply switch to off, waited 30 seconds, switched the power supply back to on, and turned the system on. The system booted, but I had no keyboard or mouse response for about five seconds. The mouse and keyboard then started working normally.


I am starting to suspect either the power supply or the motherboard at this point. Advice?

 

[Digerati]

I am starting to suspect either the power supply or the motherboard at this point. Advice?

I agree with your suspects.

The computer restarting could be a corrupt BIOS setting. While normally disabled, most BIOS Menus let you set power options to "Boot when power is restored" (or some similar verbiage). This is often used on servers and unattended computers to boot up after a power outage. So you might replace the CMOS battery. This will also reset the BIOS - so immediately boot into the BIOS Setup Menu to reset date and time, then save and exit to boot [hopefully] normally.

Swapping in a known good PSU will reveal if that is the problem (assuming all power connections are currently tight and secure). I would certainly try those two options before thinking about replacing the motherboard. There are too many issues with replacing the board - not least of which is the Windows license. If using an OEM/System Builder license, you cannot "upgrade" the board - you MUST replace the board with the identical brand and model number (or suggested replacement by the same maker, if your model is no longer in production), or plan on buying a new license.

If a full retail license, there is no problem transferring to the new board.

 

[Wrench97]

Is the PSU a 650TX v2 or the current TX 650?
The v2 is a Seasonic OEM the current TX650 a CWT OEM unit.

 

[writhziden]

I am starting to suspect either the power supply or the motherboard at this point. Advice?

I agree with your suspects.

The computer restarting could be a corrupt BIOS setting. While normally disabled, most BIOS Menus let you set power options to "Boot when power is restored" (or some similar verbiage). This is often used on servers and unattended computers to boot up after a power outage. So you might replace the CMOS battery. This will also reset the BIOS - so immediately boot into the BIOS Setup Menu to reset date and time, then save and exit to boot [hopefully] normally.

Swapping in a known good PSU will reveal if that is the problem (assuming all power connections are currently tight and secure). I would certainly try those two options before thinking about replacing the motherboard. There are too many issues with replacing the board - not least of which is the Windows license. If using an OEM/System Builder license, you cannot "upgrade" the board - you MUST replace the board with the identical brand and model number (or suggested replacement by the same maker, if your model is no longer in production), or plan on buying a new license.

If a full retail license, there is no problem transferring to the new board.

I decided to re-flash the BIOS with the F2 version. If that does not fix it, I will try the F3P version. If I still have issues, I'll pull all peripherals out of the board and replace the CMOS battery with a new one. Then I'll move to the power supply and then the motherboard itself.

The reason I did the BIOS re-flash instead of replacing the CMOS battery is your response regarding CMOS ESD safety:

Do note too that all Gigabyte boards have a reset jumper or switch and they should really be used instead of pulling the CMOS battery as they short the CMOS module's "holding" voltage to ground instantly and without doubt resetting the BIOS with less chance of ESD damage, or damage from dropping a charged battery on the motherboard.

What is the safest method to replace the battery without harming the motherboard? I plan to remove everything from the board first to avoid damage to anything else, but I would also like to prevent damage to the board and the battery by using your sock method or anti-static safe gloves.


Since the re-flash, the system has been a little less sluggish. That could just be wishful thinking, but I'm holding out hope that things go smoothly now and the BIOS was sent to me corrupted and in need of a re-flash.

Is the PSU a 650TX v2 or the current TX 650?
The v2 is a Seasonic OEM the current TX650 a CWT OEM unit.

I seem to remember it being a V2, but is there a way to tell for sure? I imagine it'll be on the model/serial, so I'll take a look at it more closely next time I open the system up.

EDIT:

Dang, looks like it was a V1. The power supply input is vertical instead of horizontal. Looking at V2s on newegg suggest the power input should be horizontal/parallel to the fan.​

 

[Wrench97]

The V1 is the best of the bunch Seasonic built, note there was not a V1 on the supply look at the load table table label it'll say model number.
CMPSU-650TX is a Seasonic and the original TX650
CMPSU-650TX-C is the first CWT built unit
CMPSU-650TXV2 is the V2 (back to seasonic after the failed CWT attempt.
TX650 (75-001315 / CP-9020038) second CWT attempt and current product.
CMPSU-650TXM Modular CWT
TX650M (75-001316 / CP-9020002) latest modular unit and current product.

 

[Digerati]

What is the safest method to replace the battery without harming the motherboard? I plan to remove everything from the board first to avoid damage to anything else, but I would also like to prevent damage to the board and the battery by using your sock method or anti-static safe gloves.

You have to be pretty clumsy to ruin a motherboard when replacing the battery.

The most important thing to remember is to unplug from the wall and touch bare metal of the case interior BEFORE reaching in. You must unplug because the ATX Form Factor standard requires all ATX power supplies provide +5Vsb standby voltage to several points on the motherboard even when the computer is powered off. And you must discharge your body because a static discharge so tiny it is below the threshold of human awareness (you cannot hear, feel, or see it) is more than enough to totally destroy the CPU, memory modules and other sensitive high-density digital electronics.

Remember a flash totally rewrites the BIOS to the version of the flash file. Resetting the CMOS module only resets the BIOS to the defaults established by that flash version (stuff like date and time, drive information and boot order, and other user changes).

Flashing the BIOS is actually much more dangerous. Gremlins, or a simple power outage during a flash can turn your motherboard into a brick. Resetting the BIOS will not.

 

[writhziden]

Problems have increased since my last post. I am now seeing the following behavior:

• Anytime the system is put into sleep mode via Windows, the USB mouse fails to work when the system resumes.
• The system is then unable to be powered off via Shut Down. As soon as it shuts down, it turns itself back on.
• The mouse is never detected again after the system enters this state.
• Sometimes the system also fails to detect my mechanical hard disk drive. My solid state drive is not affected.
• All of the above can be remedied by physically turning off the PSU switch, waiting five seconds, and turning the switch back to the on position.

Back to the question: are the above more likely to be a motherboard issue or a power supply issue? I realize both are possible, but when troubleshooting and possibly doing an RMA, which should I start with?

Voltages look fine within the BIOS at 12.168 V and 5.040 V; that is not conclusive, but it does not indicate an obvious failure​

I've also updated the BIOS to F4 from F2. No discernible change, but the problem may have gotten worse after the update. It's also possible that the problem is just gradually getting worse on its own and the update had nothing to do with it. I am hesitant to go back to F2 given that BIOS flashing is risky anyway.


The plot thickens... The problem only occurs if I use my mouse to wake the system from sleep. Stranger still, I can wake the system even from a full shut down if I use the mouse, and the settings in the BIOS for waking the system with the mouse and keyboard are set to off.

Power On By Keyboard....Disabled
Power On By Mouse........Disabled​

 

[Digerati]

This "sounds" like a motherboard issue and not a PSU issue to me. Those voltages are clearly within tolerance specifications and the fact the system can be powered on from an off state (that is, the PSU is plugged in AND the master power switch on the back of the PSU is set to on (or 1), that indicates the required +5Vsb standby voltage is present too. If me, I would toss in a spare PSU just to be sure (and also to double-check me to ensure I connected everything correctly) and if still having issues, I would RMA the motherboard.

Power On By Keyboard....Disabled
Power On By Mouse........Disabled

I have seen this often and decided those apply to PS/2 connected keyboards and mice, not USB.

 

[writhziden]

I determined that this only happens with the two USB 3.0 ports connected directly to the motherboard. The USB 3.0 ports on the front of my case that connect via cable to the motherboard do not have this effect when the mouse is plugged into them. The USB 2.0 ports also work fine. I now am avoiding using the USB 3.0 ports in the back of my system (the ones that are directly connected to the motherboard).

I have asked Gigabyte to determine if the USB 3.0 ports on all their boards for this model have issues waking when a mouse is plugged into them and used to resume from sleep. I imagine most users do not plug a mouse into USB 3.0 since it provides no speed increase for the mouse. I just used them since they were the available ports left after I had plugged all my other external devices into the 2.0 ports. Plus, I figured if I needed 3.0, I could just use the front ports.

This to me indicates either the model itself has some problems with that set of USB 3.0 controllers when using some devices, or my motherboard is faulty and needs to be replaced. We'll see what Gigabyte's support team determines.

 

[Digerati]

I note on two Gigabyte boards here, the manuals label the top (in tower orientation) USB ports as "KB_MS_USB" ports and the other 2 pairs of USB ports on the back are labeled as "USB30_1" and "USB30_2". I have an ASUS board similarly labeled with the top USB ports simply as "KBMS". I have not done any testing with newer boards but I know when USB keyboards and mice first started taking over in popularity from the PS/2 versions, only the top USB ports were enabled in early stages of the motherboard/BIOS boot process (before the HD and regular drivers were loaded). In fact, you had to keep a PS/2 keyboard on hand if you wanted to boot into the BIOS setup menu (or Safe Mode) because USB drivers were not loaded initially. And when using wired devices, having them connected in the top ports gives the user more "wiggle room" than lower ports so it just became the de facto standard location. So even now and all my systems use wireless keyboards and mice, I still connect in the top ports - and have not had the problems you are encountering.

That said, with modern motherboards, it "should" not matter.

 

[jcgriff2]

Sorry to ask, Mike . . . are the USB 3.0 drivers current?

 

[writhziden]

Sorry to ask, Mike . . . are the USB 3.0 drivers current?

Yes, but this is happening outside of Windows and is not limited to Windows, so that pretty much rules out the possibility of it being driver related.

Of course, this is Windows 8, and so it does not always fully shut down due to the fast startup. I'll have to play with those options a bit to be sure.


There are some chipset drivers that were recently released following the latest BIOS. Thanks John. That seems to have cleared up the mouse issue. Guess Windows 8 was in its fast startup, hibernation state during my shut down tests. Either that, or the bad drivers were interfering with the power state during sleep/shut down.

 

[writhziden]

Well, I thought my troubles were over, but this motherboard is starting to be a huge headache. I installed Windows 8.1 last night, and I installed the 8.1 drivers for the Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 this morning. A couple drivers required restarts, as usual. The final driver I installed was my audio driver, which asked me to restart.

I restarted the system, and upon restart, it could not find my boot manager, my mouse, or my keyboard. The behavior was similar to before, so I did a PSU power cycle. Still no go. I finally had to clear the CMOS via the jumper on the motherboard to get it to boot up again. I have never had a driver install place my motherboard in a strange BIOS state before. This board seems rather buggy.

 

[Digerati]

This board seems rather buggy.

It does. And with Gigabyte being my preferred maker, it is disturbing. That said, one of the reasons I prefer them is how they have treated me in the past. For example when the motherboard was plagued with leaky capacitors, I had a board that was over 4 years old that started to crash. A visual inspection showed several leaking and bulging caps. I called them up to complain and barely got the words out of my mouth before I had an RMA for a free (including free shipping both ways) replacement.

I think you should RMA it instead of getting further frustrated. Motherboards are very complex with MANY things that can go wrong - even from the best makers.

 

[writhziden]

I think you should RMA it instead of getting further frustrated. Motherboards are very complex with MANY things that can go wrong - even from the best makers.

Could use some advice on the RMA. Gigabyte's support representative is blaming Microsoft for the BIOS settings getting corrupted. The representative said the Windows 8.1 update must have disabled my USB ports and my SATA port in my BIOS.

 

[Digerati]

Could use some advice on the RMA. Gigabyte's support representative is blaming Microsoft for the BIOS settings getting corrupted. The representative said the Windows 8.1 update must have disabled my USB ports and my SATA port in my BIOS.

That sounds like BS to me. The only settings in the BIOS Windows itself should be able to change is date and time.

If me, I would reset the BIOS one last time after making sure you have the latest BIOS installed. I might even install the boot drive in another computer, remove all partitions, reformat and start the Windows install over with a blank disk.

FTR, I rarely make any changes to the defaults in the BIOS other than date and time, and boot order. You should not have to change any USB setting, or graphics settings.

Note your xHCI mode should be (I think) default to "smart auto" to allow USB3.0 devices to work in "pre-OS" (pre-boot) mode. Check your mobo manual.

it could not find my boot manager

Did it say it could not find your boot manager? Or did it say it could not find a bootable disk?

Since this is brand new, you may be able to RMA it through the vendor and not Gigabyte.

Is this a wireless mouse and keyboard using one USB dongle? Or wired? Have you tried another mouse and keyboard?

 

[writhziden]

Read More:

Could use some advice on the RMA. Gigabyte's support representative is blaming Microsoft for the BIOS settings getting corrupted. The representative said the Windows 8.1 update must have disabled my USB ports and my SATA port in my BIOS.

That sounds like BS to me. The only settings in the BIOS Windows itself should be able to change is date and time.

Yep, Microsoft pretty much said the same thing when I contacted them. At that point, Gigabyte's support agreed to RMA the board through their RMA website.

If me, I would reset the BIOS one last time after making sure you have the latest BIOS installed. I might even install the boot drive in another computer, remove all partitions, reformat and start the Windows install over with a blank disk.

FTR, I rarely make any changes to the defaults in the BIOS other than date and time, and boot order. You should not have to change any USB setting, or graphics settings.

Note your xHCI mode should be (I think) default to "smart auto" to allow USB3.0 devices to work in "pre-OS" (pre-boot) mode. Check your mobo manual.

Pretty much what I have done. I am going to give it a few weeks and see if problems return. If so, I'll initiate the advanced RMA so I can receive a new board prior to sending the current one for analysis.

it could not find my boot manager

Did it say it could not find your boot manager? Or did it say it could not find a bootable disk?

GRUB said it was unable to find the boot device. GRUB is installed on my SSD, and the boot device is my HDD for Ubuntu. Basically, my HDD went missing.

Since this is brand new, you may be able to RMA it through the vendor and not Gigabyte.

The 90 day period passed.

Is this a wireless mouse and keyboard using one USB dongle? Or wired? Have you tried another mouse and keyboard?

USB wired mouse and keyboard. Tried a different mouse and keyboard with the same problems. I am hoping this is the last of them, but I'm not counting on it given all the issues I've had since day 1 with this motherboard. If I do RMA it, I hope it is just this motherboard and not the whole line of X79-UP4s.

 

[jcgriff2]

I wish you well with all of this, Mike.

Stories like these - especially involving someone of your expertise -- makes me even more leery of attempting my 1st build & keeps my mindset toward purchasing another OEM system.

 

[Patrick]

I think anyone that has built computers before knocks on wood when ordering their hardware. The first build I ever did (which by the way is now functioning years later from a PLASTIC BOX) worked better than my second i7 build that inspired me to learn about BSOD's because I was smacked in the face with 0x116 BSOD's for months. I still don't know which specific piece of hardware caused it because my PSU blew up and destroyed everything, so I built a brand new system. Maybe it was the PSU :lol:

 

[niemiro]

I wish you well with all of this, Mike.

Stories like these - especially involving someone of your expertise -- makes me even more leery of attempting my 1st build & keeps my mindset toward purchasing another OEM system.

I think anyone that has built computers before knocks on wood when ordering their hardware. The first build I ever did (which by the way is now functioning years later from a PLASTIC BOX) worked better than my second i7 build that inspired me to learn about BSOD's because I was smacked in the face with 0x116 BSOD's for months. I still don't know which specific piece of hardware caused it because my PSU blew up and destroyed everything, so I built a brand new system. Maybe it was the PSU :lol:

Sounds familiar!

After months of BSOD issues and RMAing my first build (which is finally stable, I think), when it cames to replacing my father's computer I just bought an OEM - it was just way too much hassle