ms will pay $100 per win 8 app that gets into its store

I think the problem with technical people (especially those that frequent and post on internet forums) is that we fail sometimes to realize we are *not* the majority of users, and in fact we *are* in a very small minority. Software companies and hardware companies have started to realize that the market does not want large desktops anymore, and even normal-sized laptops do not sell as well as small, portable, even tablets or tablet-like devices. If what *we* wanted was actually what sold well, we'd get what we want :).

If you want to complain to anyone about the state of computing today, complain to Apple, and complain to your neighbors and a good number of your co-workers, because they're (by-and-large) purchasing these types of machines, and eschewing the advanced functionality (and thus complexity) of yesterday's standards.
 
Temmu said:
How about I put you into a boxing ring with a few veteran boxers and then laugh at, or mock you for not making it through the first round against a more experienced boxer?

yikes! how violent of you! you must be really frustrated. try taking a few days off of work and listening to calm music.
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:thud: It was an analogy... If you took that literally then you missed my point entirely unfortunately and I apologize for any of the miscommunication that took place. I could have used any other comparison, but I thought this was most suiting at the time I was brainstorming because of your attitude towards Windows 8 Apps.
 
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I hear ya GZ, but actually to be a little less inflammatory, I think a better statement would be, "Whether or not the new UI Apps are productivity-related or not, is up for personal conjecture based on people's own use of the system."

It is at issue for some, and it is not good to imply they are being petty in their opinion so we would not want to imply that. Everyone does have a right to their own opinion. Who knows, they may change their minds at some time in the future, or maybe Microsoft will change how things are being done in Windows 8.

I think that if someone has an issue with how things are done within UIs they need to speak up. How else will the developers ever know what is wrong if everyone just accepts things they may not be happy with in the UI?

Some things can be adjusted to, others not so much. This is the same in all UIs regardless of the operating system beneath them.
 
I agree with you, LilBambi, but I could see the argument better if MS removed the Desktop environment completely...

This shows that MS is mindful of the power users and IT professionals as well as the PC enthusiasts. Even though the complete removal of the Start Menu (familiarity) was and is a bit of a boon.

The argument cannot be fully validated for that reason alone.

And most people here have no issue with the opinions that were set forth... It is the manner in which they were.
 
I think we mostly agree that tablet/phone style apps can be useful, and the success of iOS devices demonstrates they can be incredibly popular.

Back to the original thread topic, is the Windows store actually working? The lack of any obvious search functionality annoys me the most - it's bugged me for a while, but I've just noticed you can search the store simply by typing on the keyboard. That to me seems to be a hidden feature, one that's relatively hard to find for most users. Considering most tablets hide the keyboard when not in use, how do you search easily on a WindowsRT device?

MS might be "late to the party" with their own app store, but they have a huge amount of resources they can put behind it. It's going to be on the majority of new computers now, so it has a large potential market without the need to install an external program. However, the unintuitive design for the store and the lack of appealing desktop apps puts me off. Why aren't MS trying for a Steam rival? A quick search of the store for "office", I get a bunch of results that are interactive training for MS Office - why can't I buy MS Office itself through the app store?

For the Steam comparison - Valve now distributes non-gaming software through Steam, but the design of Steam makes it a lot more successful and appealing to browse through.

Temmu said:
yikes! how violent of you! you must be really frustrated. try taking a few days off of work and listening to calm music.
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@Temmu, lets not drag this somewhere we don't want to go. No offence was meant by Ace's comments, it was merely an analogy.
 
Will Watts said:
I've just noticed you can search the store simply by typing on the keyboard. That to me seems to be a hidden feature, one that's relatively hard to find for most users.
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Wow... I have known that for a while now! It is the same when searching the new UI...

I am not at home, but I think there is a search function in the right-side menu (swipe)
 
It's frustrated me both in the overall UI and Store - I've tried the store a couple of times, and just couldn't work out how to search. It was easier to work out for the Start Screen, but mainly just on the basis that there has to be some way of searching.

You're right - definitely a search function in the right-side menu. As I use multiple screens, I don't usually encounter that menu (very rarely use the corner menus other than shutdown). I know a lot of the features that annoy me/I can't find are in the UI, but if I can't find them how do I use them?
 
When you are on the Start page, all you have to do is start typing it it will automatically bring up the search window. It is a very nice feature actually. But it is a hidden feature that once you find out about, you never forget it. ;)

I like the Start page fine, I just wish it could be another page that can be brought up on the desktop instead of first.

Does anyone remember the old original OS that was on the eeePCs? It was very annoying. They had a simplistic UI that was fine for a few things but if you wanted to do anything else, you had to change to the full UI. The way Windows 8 comes up first on the Start page, feels very much like that. The big difference is the Desktop is only a single click away and it doesn't have to boot it and take a bit to do it. Just click and you are there.

I personally do not like that extra step, but it is quick to get past it. I also don't care for the fact that the menu is totally different if you are on the Desktop and when you are on the Start Page. But at least I know it does that now.

I just wish they had given us time to get used to it on the phones and tablets then a year or two later, maybe introduce it as one of the items to bring up, more like it does on the Mac.

They knew it would be hard to get used to at Apple. They didn't force people to do it NOW. They put Mission Control in the Dock with nice big icons and they made the Dashboard only a click away, but we didn't have to go to either of those first before we could get some work done.

They also hid but did thankfully include the Windows 7 style hard drive image creation utilities within the UI, but it's extra steps to get to it too. But at least it's not gone.

Sometimes I think they just don't get it that desktops are not gone. They are still very much alive and needed at this point and will be for some time to come.

I like the speed of Windows 8. And I must say though that I have gotten quite quick in moving around between the Desktop and Start page UIs. But I don't like it. ;)

But I don't care for the flat one dimensional look to all the windows, nor do I care for that same look in Outlook.com's UI either. There's no dimension to it at all. But I must say it's a vast improvement over Hotmail or Windows Live (web interface) in many ways. I talked about this in the Where's my Aero Glass thread.

I don't care for how some things just don't work in Windows 8. Some programs that you could make work in Windows 7, you can't in Windows 8. Also I don't care for the phantom gremlins that are there for HP all in one drivers that include fax capabilities (when you do multiple pages). I talked about this in another thread.

I do use Windows 8 a lot these days and there are a lot of things to like and that work very well in it. And I have been learning a lot of quirks, shortcuts and tricks with Windows 8. I like learning. I will work it out. I just won't like part of the process because it's not as intuitive as it could have been.

These are just my opinions. I am not trying to throw them down anyone's throats. I am only letting you all know how I feel about it is all.
 
LilBambi said:
I just wish they had given us time to get used to it on the phones and tablets then a year or two later, maybe introduce it as one of the items to bring up, more like it does on the Mac.
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Technically, Windows Phone had quite a similar layout and feel, so if you used their phone platform prior Windows 8 was pretty intuitive (and they still seem to be taking cues from the WP environment into Win8, and vice-versa, as time goes on). I understand most folks stuck with their iPhones and Android devices, but I figured I'd point out that what you stated they actually did do. Also, Windows 7 is still supported and available for use for another 6 years or so, for what it's worth. People should really get used to Win8 on Win8-designed hardware, but I know lots of folks that put Win8 on their old XP and Vista machines without problems. You won't get the full experience though, which can make it harder to use.

LilBambi said:
Sometimes I think they just don't get it that desktops are not gone. They are still very much alive and needed at this point and will be for some time to come.
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I agree, desktops aren't gone - but consumers just aren't buying them (and haven't been for a few years). Consumers have even stopped buying expensive and large laptops for a little while now too, preferring tablets and smaller ultrabooks. Microsoft and Apple (to their credit or detriment, it remains to be seen) have simply been following and facilitating this trend. The desktop interface is still there for heavy mouse/keyboard usage, but as I mentioned above, using Windows 8 on non-Win8 hardware means it isn't quite as easy to use, and isn't the full experience. To each his or her own, but this is one area where I'd recommend people not judge (too harshly) Windows 8 on hardware designed for 2005 - you generally will end up disappointed in a few ways.

LilBambi said:
I do use Windows 8 a lot these days and there are a lot of things to like and that work very well in it. And I have been learning a lot of quirks, shortcuts and tricks with Windows 8. I like learning. I will work it out. I just won't like part of the process because it's not as intuitive as it could have been.

These are just my opinions. I am not trying to throw them down anyone's throats. I am only letting you all know how I feel about it is all.
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There's nothing wrong with that ;).
 
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cluberti said:
LilBambi said:
I just wish they had given us time to get used to it on the phones and tablets then a year or two later, maybe introduce it as one of the items to bring up, more like it does on the Mac.
Click to expand...
Technically, Windows Phone had quite a similar layout and feel, so if you used their phone platform prior Windows 8 was pretty intuitive (and they still seem to be taking cues from the WP environment into Win8, and vice-versa, as time goes on). I understand most folks stuck with their iPhones and Android devices, but I figured I'd point out that what you stated they actually did do. Also, Windows 7 is still supported and available for use for another 6 years or so, for what it's worth. People should really get used to Win8 on Win8-designed hardware, but I know lots of folks that put Win8 on their old XP and Vista machines without problems. You won't get the full experience though, which can make it harder to use.

LilBambi said:
Sometimes I think they just don't get it that desktops are not gone. They are still very much alive and needed at this point and will be for some time to come.
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I agree, desktops aren't gone - but consumers just aren't buying them (and haven't been for a few years). Consumers have even stopped buying expensive and large laptops for a little while now too, preferring tablets and smaller ultrabooks. Microsoft and Apple (to their credit or detriment, it remains to be seen) have simply been following and facilitating this trend. The desktop interface is still there for heavy mouse/keyboard usage, but as I mentioned above, using Windows 8 on non-Win8 hardware means it isn't quite as easy to use, and isn't the full experience. To each his or her own, but this is one area where I'd recommend people not judge (too harshly) Windows 8 on hardware designed for 2005 - you generally will end up disappointed in a few ways.

LilBambi said:
I do use Windows 8 a lot these days and there are a lot of things to like and that work very well in it. And I have been learning a lot of quirks, shortcuts and tricks with Windows 8. I like learning. I will work it out. I just won't like part of the process because it's not as intuitive as it could have been.

These are just my opinions. I am not trying to throw them down anyone's throats. I am only letting you all know how I feel about it is all.
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There's nothing wrong with that ;).
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As long as desktops still live I will support them! :thumbsup2:

Windows 8 is actually really nice though because it doesn't require you to really upgrade your hardware. In fact, the same old hardware I have seen tested on Windows 7, worked better with Windows 8 for the reason that Windows 8 seems to be slightly more lightweight on those requirements. This is a slight positive in my books. If users don't have to worry about having to upgrade their hardware, then it makes the transition that much easier, and the user will be that much happier in the end.

Tablets are good for a few things, but I think I should exclude myself from having a say that would relate to the majority because there are not many programmers out there compared to the average user that mainly just uses their PC to browse Facebook. This is the reason why I find it hard to digest that desktops are slowly dying I believe.
 
There are some driver issues though... I have an older HP Core 2 Duo Notebook (business class) that has the Intel Centrino WiFi and they are not supporting Drivers for Windows 8... I have already BSOD' due to that... Video drivers are another issue.. I am using Legacy drivers written for Windows 7 to run on my laptop.

I am also having issues on my desktop with AMD Graphics drivers (go figure...)
 
I think I'm using the generic drivers for everything on Win 8 - everything is working fine. Does it matter about Graphics drivers? I usually install them, but I think I forgot about it at first and everything is running fine.

Presumably I'd get higher graphics quality with them (or at least a BSOD or two...). I'm a reasonably heavy gamer, haven't noticed any issues with generics.
 
Windows 8 probably has native drivers for your Video Card... it doesn't for mine... until I installed the older drivers, I was running on the Microsoft Base Graphics driver... No acceleration whatsoever.

EDIT:

By native, I mean developed by AMD or nVidia, tested by MS and included in Windows 8...
 
Makes sense, I wonder if I'd see an improvement with a proper driver. I had completely forgotten about it...

Speed of Windows 8 is great. Never thought I'd be frustrated when I tried booting up a clean install of Windows 7 and waiting for it to start up.
 
Totally agree about the speed of running Windows 8 compared to any prior Windows OS including my favorite Windows 7. But if you remember coming to Windows 7 was a speed demon compared to Millennium II, errr, Vista!

Regarding market penetration of Window Mobile in the two years prior to Windows 8 release in Fall/October 2012, here's the stats for Smartphone penetration in Q2 2010:

SMARTPHONE MAKERS

1 - Nokia, Finland 24.0 million for 39%
2 - RIM, Canada 11.2 million for 18%
3 - Apple, USA 8.4 million for 14%
4 - HTC, Taiwan 4.5 million for 7%
5 - Samsung, South Korea 3.0 million for 5%
6 - Motorola, USA 2.7 million for 4%
Rest of smartphone makers 7.9 million
TOTAL smartphones in Q2 61.7 million
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The majority of the smartphones in circulation at that time were Android, Blackberry and iOS. The numbers have only flipped a bit, RIM's Blackberry dropped a notch and lost their #2 slot last year. Windows Mobile still only accounts for about 7-8% of the market.

And during that same timeframe, Microsoft had not tablets in rhe space at all.

That is what I was referring to. What little they had in the market at that time was used by very few people.

They overdid their first introduction of an OS in my opinion without giving people a chance to ease into it, nor did they think about those who would be forced to use Windows 7 or older at work and Windows 8 at the consumer level for a some years to come w/it's radically changed OS.

Don't get me wrong, I use Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 and even XP in virtual environs, but when you go to local retail outlets, only Windows 8 is on the shelves. Even online outlets are mostly sold out of Windows 7 computers. You are generally forced to call an OEM to get a Windows 7 computer w/decent specs through their custom PC or Business divisions now (read more expensive than Windows 8 in most cases). Or go to liquidators to get a low end Windows 7 computer.

I wasn't going to respond but the more I thought about it, I just thought it was important to get this out there.
 
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Given that the *vast* majority of people who get a new OS get it with a new PC (not including corporate installs - I'm not counting those types of upgrades, although a lot of those are with new hardware nowadays too), how would you suggest Microsoft have done it? If you would suggest taking multiple iterations to get to the current state, that could have taken a decade or longer for most people. I'm pretty sure that would be far too long to keep up with consumerization trends, honestly. I understand wanting to ease into something new, but in the case of modernizing Windows to run better on hardware consumers want, taking upwards of 6-7 years (and for some people, up to 10 years for full exposure) isn't really a wise business move. Sometimes you just have to take the leap and hope people come with you, knowing it'll be painful (for some) but necessary.
 

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