NVIDIA Windows Kernel Module Driver high latency causing in game microstutter.

[writhziden]

I haven't tried taking out the GPU and running HDMI from mobo, but I don't think I can do that with my Ryzen CPU.

You are correct. I hadn't looked since most processors seem to have integrated graphics these days, but your processor does not. Do you happen to have another dedicated display card available?

 

[nevermore15]

No I don't, but I'm going to borrow my friends GPU and rig and switch our GPUs between them to see what happens. I feel like that might give some definitive insight into whats going on.

 

[writhziden]

Sounds good. Keep us updated.

 

[empleat]

You bought 150$ mobo - (luckily there are still many things you can do!) could be bad mobo!!! Bad chipset, PCI-E bus etc. can cause spikes for GPU Luckily there are still many things you can do! Or it could be NVIDIA drivers! NVIDIA users complain on DPC latency spikes a lot! I couldn't find your motherboard on Anandtech's DPC latency tests. But it is chipset B450 (cheap mobo) which is not ideal for gaming!

Very first do a full system backup like using AOMEI backupper! And make recorvery bootable USB flashdisk!

First lets establish your tests are accurate, but since you have micro-stuttering it points to DPC lat. issues! Do you have also clicks and pops (in speakers/headphones)???

You should do latencymon tests at least 30 minutes and don't run any programs on the background - best is cleanboot! For more info, check bottom of the page also: Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: real-time audio suitability checker

I recommend to use default testing method: interrupt to user process latency, also check all CPU cores in CPU tab!

- In Windows you should set powerplan to Ultimate Peformance and disable idle saver! (after check CPU temps right away for overheating, but should be fine on desktop)
To show ultimate performance plan (paste into elevated Power Shell):
powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61
To "processor idle disable" idle saver:
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 5d76a2ca-e8c0-402f-a133-2158492d58ad -ATTRIB_HIDE
- Don't use Turbo (dynamic freq.) not sure if AMD has that!
- BCLK should be set to 100, or closest to 100
- All power saving features should be disabled in BIOS!
- Try HPET on/off

Additionally, can you screenshot drivers tab in latmon (descending) for tab highest execution (MS).

First you can try DDU to uninstall your drivers in safe mode, it should be safe. But read tutorial!!!
Download on official site: Wagnardsoft
Verify download using: Get-FileHash (Microsoft.PowerShell.Utility) - PowerShell, or right click exe/digital signatures/details should say OK!
Don't forget to disconnect from internet and download drivers first (I recommend oldest available, Nvidia drivers are currently in atrocious state) or Windows will install automatically crappy OEM for you!
I recommend to use mode "clean but do not restart".

I would recommend to install drivers using NvCleanInstall, it debloats drivers, should be save everyone says + creator. NVCleanstall (v1.8.0) Download
I recommend to disable telemetry and check to install only display drivers!

Verify GPU is running at least in PCI-E 3.0 x16, download GPU-Z: TechPowerUp First run a game, or render test so GPU is used.
I recommend to set in BIOS PCI-E to 3.0 gen and if you have link speed under PCH make sure it is set to x16.

Next it is recommended to upgrade BIOS to solve DPC latency issues. First make sure you don't lose power, today motherboards should have recorvery option in BIOS, in case you mess up. But it is easy to do, just read carefully! Also it can be reflashed using: "usb ch341a" in worst case! Never had problem!

Make sure GPU is in MSI mode! Windows: Line-Based vs. Message Signaled-Based Interrupts. MSI tool. Download MSI_Util v2, or v3.
Make sure in BIOS you have enabled IOAPIC 24-119 entries. Try enable Above 4G decoding, but I had floaty mouse using that!
Also check all devices are in MSI mode. CAREFUL CAN CAUSE SYSTEM NOT BOOT, EVERY DEVICE SHOULD BE FINE, EXCEPT NVIDIA HD AUDIO. I recommend to uninstall Nvidia HD audio to check, which is your audio controller. I do not recommend to install it in the first place!!!

Try 3Dmark and check GPU scores. Also you download HWINFO and at start check sensors only, then click on enable logging and after you are done with 3D mark test click disable and upload log!

Hardware:
- do you use for keyboard and mouse top 2 USB ports?
- can you try to connect keyboard to lower, or upper USB ports?
- do you use any additional USB devices?
- do you use any PCI-E cards?
- do you use headphones over USB?

You can try timerbench to find out what timer works best on your PC, but usually it is best to not force timers! And let app to decide! The HPET bug: What it is and what it isn't

Go to eleveated CMD: write bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes, this will disable dynamic timer resolution, which makes your mouse to accelerate!

Download ISLC and set timer resolution window to 0.5ms, this also can lower DPC latency: Intelligent standby list cleaner (ISLC) v1.0.2.2 Released - Wagnardsoft Forum

For AMD optimization: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Also DPC latency generated by other drivers can cause issues for whole system.
- I do not recommend to install realtek audio drivers, cause tremendous lag. (you can try and then uninstall - if it doesn't help, not installing them can cause stutters)
- Install latest NIC drivers (these are important!)
- avoid Intel sata drivers at all costs (tremendous lag)
- you can try install chipset drivers, but I don't recommend it, causes huge input lag!
- also optimize your nic click on your adapter in network center and right-click/properties/configure disable power savings there! Then go to advanced tab and google all settings there to optimize. Best site speedguide.net Network Adapter Optimization

Check melody tweaks: Melody's Ultra Tweaks Pack - Basic Tweaks

 

[nevermore15]

Hey thanks! I'll try all of these fixes by the end of the week and post all my screenshots. Just to answer a few questions right now,

I don't have pops and crackles with my headphones or audio in general,
My GPU is in MSI mode,

Other than my USB Mouse and keyboard, I have a charging USB cable for my headphones, my wireless headphone USB dongle, and a USB wifi adapter connected to my PC.
I used to use a PCIE wifi adaptor but that was also causing DPC issues so I switched it for the USB adapter
I do in fact use Logitech G533 wireless headphones over USB

I don't have realtek installed,
I've used win update and checked the wifi adapter website to ensure that the NIC drivers are all up to date.
I don't have intel sata drivers, I just have Standard SATA AHCI Controller
I think I do have chipset drivers installed but the latest version for ryzen
I've disabled power savings for the wifi adapter.

Thanks so much for the suggestions. Ill get to them asap.

 

[empleat]

Yeah it is a lot of changes, best is to do 1 change at the time. And test again to see if it helped, or not! You can try latencymon for some less important changes 3-5 mins...

- Try to disable MSI for GPU, maybe your mobo can't handle that.

AAAAAAAAAAAA you are making my eyes bleed! USB dongle and USB wifi adapter? Check your Wdf1000.sys(USB 3 drivers) entry in latmon!!! I suppose you have only USB 3 drivers, modern mobos have only USB 3 drivers! Try disconnected all unnecessary devices in general and try again.

Yeah PCI-E cards in general cause tremendous DPC latency!!!

- Try to disconnect all unnecessary devices and re-test.

Windows update is usually a bad idea, it will install and update various drivers automatically to OEM drivers. Updated drivers aren't always best, in case of drivers (it is many times the opposite)! Sledgehammer is the best, it allows you to download updates manually and safely disable Windows Updates, which will disable also automatic driver updates. I install all updates manually! Windows Update destroyed my system many times!

It could be also caused in combination that you are using AMD CPU, it wouldn't surprise me if NVIDIA boycotted AMD, in best case: they don't care!!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/dj6iil

AMD chipset isn't too good! HW News - AMD on USB Dropout Issues, Intel i5-11600K Leaks, NVIDIA vs. Mining

You should also check all entries in your BIOS especially PCH, pci-e etc. - entries relating to GPU and google them! Not sure how it is named on AMD mobos. In best case: check and understand all entries in BIOS, usually it is just flip of some setting. Overclocking setting you can ignore mostly, like ram timings. BTW did you disable RAM training switch on mobo and in BIOS?

Do you have QVL RAM?

Also you can try MEMTEST 8 passes recommended, but free version is only 4.

You can also try ETW trace and send it to NVIDIA support, but I guess they will say it is not their problem, because you bought their xxxx$ expensive GPU... How to generating an event trace log for GPUView to troubleshoot performance issues/low FPS/game stutter | NVIDIA

Don't forget to send that screenshot from latmon of driver's tab descending for entry Execution Time (MS). So we can see which drivers generate most DPC latency!

 

[nevermore15]

Dumb question but if I traded my 3070 out for like a 6800 would it probably fix the issues? lol.

Also here's my latencymon driver results after I left the PC on when I was out for the day.

 

[nevermore15]

Update: I used DDU and then NVCleanInstall and it seems to have reduced the frame skipping of the stuttering now. There is still stutter but it's improved a little. Hopefully, it's not a placebo lol. Driver timings have not changed though, still the same as when I posted the screenshot. (Also my FPS improved a lot when I chose the option that only installed the display drivers only. Shows how much bloatware Nvidia puts into its driver package :/ )

BIOs is already updated to most recent

Mouse and KB are both plugged into uppermost USB ports

 

[empleat]

Dumb question but if I traded my 3070 out for like a 6800 would it probably fix the issues? lol.

That's hard to say. It could be NVIDIA drivers, faulty card, or it could be a bad motherboard! You could try to install Linux dual boot and check: if you have DPC latency issues there too. Or you said you will try another GPU, that could help, not sure if it is 100% conclusive, maybe worse GPU won't tax motherboard as much! But MSI interrupts are rather old, GPUs support them long time. Otherwise there is no way of knowing...

So did you try oldest NVIDIA drivers for 3070? I also heard 461.40 helped multiple people with stutter and some other problems, but at the same time - I heard they caused problems (maybe black screen). In case of DPC latency, I heard never drivers did improve in terms of DPC latency. But you should wait 14 days at least before installing newest and check on nvidia subreddit (google driver number) for any issues!

Random question: do you have connected GPU using 2 different PCI-E cables? And not using the same cable? Also make sure CPU 8 pin cable is connected to the CPU slot on the PSU and PCI-E to PCI-E holes on PSU!
- did you try to put GPU to a different PCI-E slot on your motherboard?
- are mouse and keyboard plugged in USB 2?
- what exactly is your PSU model? It would help a lot if you could try 3D Mark and log during that using HWINFO as I written (just reminding it, I know you have in on your to-do list xD)

Other drivers have okay execution time, even it could be better. Except Wdf1000.sys, it is crazy for it to have more Total execution (ms) higher than GPU drivers!!! Disconnect all USB devices except mouse & keyboard!!! Disable Xhci in BIOS, try to disable Legacy USB support. Disable all ports you don't use! Check any other USB setting you have in bios. Than re-test.

Also did you already set all setting and did all things - I mentioned, before you did a latencymon test? Accuracy of test can be affected by a lot of things, it is running system afterall!

- under power plan: disable under USB settings: USB selective suspend
- download this utility: Windows power plan settings explorer utility and uncheck USB 3 Link Power Management, this will show this setting under power plan, set that also to off
- under harddisk section uncheck: AHCI Link Power Management HIPM/DIPM, under power plan it should be set to active
- make sure to put value 0 for turn off harddisk after
- open elevated CMD write: powercfg -h off, this will disable hibernation (it is bad for multiple reasons)

BIOS is updated that is good, just to note: newest BIOS isn't always best.

Keep doing things from my list, especially BIOS setting and power saving features in BIOS, Windows power management, dynamictick, timer resolution set to 0.5ms. Try HPET on/off, or different timers, download timer bench. There is a lot of things, which can affect DPC latency greatly!

ALSO: it seems you don't have your audio controller in MSI mode!!! Download MSU_UTIL2 or 3 and switch it to MSI mode. Again careful, it could make your PC not bootable, but if you don't have NV HD audio it should be fine, check my initial post concerning this! Post MSI_UTIL2, or 3 picture of your devices.

 

[nevermore15]

I have a question, how do I end up getting the extra power options in the power plan? I'm looking at it right now and it only has basic options.

 

[nevermore15]

Ok nevermind I just misread your directions lol.

I switched the HD AudioDrivers to MSI

I ended up going through your first post and implementing everything that I could. The only thing I wasn't able to do was enabling IOAPIC 24-119. I don't think there was an option for that.

Overall, I think the thing that helped the most was using NVInstaller to only install GPU drivers. That reduced the stuttering by a decent amount, but on LatMon the high execution times for the 3070 haven't changed.

I also ran the timerbench software and I think HPET works better for my PC?




I tried unplugging and plugging in my USB devices that weren't my KB&M to see the effects on the stutter. Heres the results.


Without Headphones and Wifi Adapter:




With headphones and WIFI adapter:

 

[nevermore15]

Ok, now I'm responding to the Second Post you made:

After disconnecting everything that wasn't completely needed in terms of USB and PCIE slots, the stuttering was still there.

I don't think I have QVL ram because I cross-checked it with the MOBO pdf. (Mine is CMW16GX4M2C3200C16W, and I can't find it on the pdf for my MOBO ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING II | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global (asus.com))

I've already ran Memtest and it comes through clean for 8 passes.

Thank you for the help :)

 

[empleat]

I have a question, how do I end up getting the extra power options in the power plan? I'm looking at it right now and it only has basic options.

Did you figure how to un-hide power plan and its hidden settings?

I ended up going through your first post and implementing everything that I could.

Everything really? That was fast! I would recommend to check especially AMD tweaks from my link, on forums people say AMD cpus don't work well with NVIDIA cards in terms of DPC latency. Melody tweaks are also interesting, could be something useful there.

I also ran the timerbench software and I think HPET works better for my PC?

Yeah looks like HPET is better, so you may keep it enabled in BIOS. Question did you also do latencymon test, after you disabled HPET in BIOS? Did you disable it in BIOS right to test it and not using the program? Later you may also want to investigate another timers on your PC. But it doesn't seem like it is major issue.

Without headphones and usb wifi adapter you are not hogged by DPC latency from other sources than GPU! It seems that GPU/drivers/mobo is the issue!!!Did you try 460.40? There are also new drivers, but I wouldn't risk it until they were at least 2 weeks old! Also you can try the oldest drivers - 457.09. As recently NVIDIA drivers are awful at best!

You need to determine cause of an issue so either:
1. try other GPU
2. install Linux (don't know how to measure DPC latency on Linux) and test it there, if there is same issue
3. Can you do 3D Mark test? And use HWINFO to log (check sensors only at start of HWINFO) and then click on paper icon with green +, then run 3D Mark, you can DL free version, after it ran disable logging and send log, or log in game for 10 minutes, if something is wrong with GPU...
4. you can also send that ETW trace to Nvidia, it is not hard to do actually (from my link)

- Did you try other things I said like: checking if GPU is connected using 2 different cables and if all cables from PSU are connected correctly?
- Did you try to put GPU to different PCI-E slot?
- Did you download GPU-Z and ran render tests and checked (value on the right side) if GPU runs in PCI 3.0 x16?
- Did you disabled CPU clock boost in your BIOS, you have weird frequency 4375!
- Best is to clock CPU manually, so frequency is constant and bclk, or fclk should be closest to 100mhz (CPU bus) (also disable all power saving features in BIOS if you didn't)
- Also your audio controller probably switched back to single lane interrupts, from MSI, after you disconnect it. Latencymon shouldn't report ISR, if MSI is on, except for Wdf1000.sys and maybe some other things, but don't know any else
- Do you have ram spaced out like slot 1/3, not sure how it is on your motherboard, check manual. I ask in case: if you put your RAM next to each other, they don't have to be in dual-channel
- you disabled dynamic tick right and did you try timer resolution set to 0.5ms?
- Did you also try GPU with msi off? In case your mobo can't handle your GPU with msi on.

You don't have QVL RAM, but you said you checked it for errors 8 passes and benchmarked it right and compared scores. Unless you have some memory errors, or BSOD. It should be fine probably, I read even non QVL RAM work most of the time. It is better to have QVL in case they don't. You use probably XMP right? You could try set timings manually, but careful it could corrupt RAM, shouldn't but could - not sure. You would have to find its default timings somewhere. Also some motherboards overvolt RAM, it should run at 1.35V, spikes to 1.36/1.37 are normal I heard. Try multiple programs to measure voltages, usually no single program reports correctly all, also some BIOSes don't report correctly so there is no way to be sure...

 

[nevermore15]

Yeah I'm going through the Basic Tweaks to make sure I haven't missed anything, but right now it seems like there are some disrepancies in the regedit instructions.
It wants HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power but there aren't any entries that match the instructions.
Also it wants me to access HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers\Power, but that one doesn't even exist.

 

[empleat]

Yeah I'm going through the Basic Tweaks to make sure I haven't missed anything, but right now it seems like there are some disrepancies in the regedit instructions.
It wants HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power but there aren't any entries that match the instructions.
Also it wants me to access HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers\Power, but that one doesn't even exist.

Yeah that's normal. Some entries aren't created by default. First before you do any changes backup registry. Best is to backup only keys, under which you are changing settings. In this case you will create a new key, so to revert changes you can simply delete it.

I don't think this will help tho, it looks like faulty GPU, or bad mobo, or it could be drivers. So try to do those 4 steps, when you can. 1, or 2 to determine what is a cause of an issue, 3rd step could also shed more light on this issue, in case it is faulty GPU! Or 4 (it is easy to do, doesn't take much time) and you can create support ticket on NV forums.

 

[nevermore15]

Alright I will get to the 4 main steps you put out ASAP.

Also it seems like some of the melody tweaks have made my system stutter slightly more for some reason. How do I reverse those? Especially the BCD Edits

Also: I have tried the GPU with msi off, and the DPC latency is slightly higher during spikes.
The GPU is connected with 2 different PCIE cables to make sure they're getting max power,
I've tried the GPU in a different slot and it still has the same issues but even worse because its 8 instead of x16
I used GPUZ and the GPU runs in PCIE 3.0x16
I will get to disabling boost clock asap to see results
I checked the audio controllers on the MSI Utility and they're still on MSI mode
The ram slots are correct for my mobo, so I have them in 2 and 4
I've disabled dynamic tick and the timer on ISLR is set to 0.5 ms

Thanks :)

 

[empleat]

Also it seems like some of the melody tweaks have made my system stutter slightly more for some reason. How do I reverse those? Especially the BCD Edits

It is okay, no hassle.

I don't know what you tried. Hope you made backup as I said to easily revert all changes.

Usually to revert command: bcdedit /deletevalue <valuename>
To query bcdedit for applied changes: bcdedit /enum

Your motherboard manufacturer isn't exactly clear about PCI-E slots lol:
2 x PCIe 3.0 x16 (x16 or x8/x4)
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x4 mode) *

So I assume you have only 1 x16 slot.

Yeah more you say it makes me think: it is either bad/faulty motherboard, or GPU. Possibly NVIDIA drivers. So yea, we need to determine a cause.

 

[nevermore15]

Alright so I'm done with the log. Here it is.

Edit: I don't know why my processors always running at 100% but its probably because of one of the other fixes I tried.

 

[nevermore15]

Update to my previous post: I fixed the processor issue with a cmd command.

 

[empleat]

Alright so I'm done with the log. Here it is.

Edit: I don't know why my processors always running at 100% but its probably because of one of the other fixes I tried.

I asked you to use HWINFO to log, unfortunately I try to not install crappy programs on my computer, I have no way of opening this. And also don't know, if this log would be readable. Could you do HWINFO log please?

Yeah, ultimate performance plan has min/max CPU state set to 100, so it should run at maximum frequency all the time! If you switch to something like balanced and your CPU frequency drops, then you have power saving features on in BIOS!!!

Also enable - Disable Process Idle Saver: it will cause CPU to run constantly at c0 state (state of maximum readiness) so it will be utilized from 100% all the time. This is useful only in games and when performance is needed!

I recommend process lasso: it can dynamically change power plans, enable/disable idle saver and core park utility from bitsum also, which can unpark cores. Process lasso has even priorities, so if you launch one program, over another, it will prioritize that. And when you exit all programs, it will revert to default power plan you can choose! It is no BS program, which improves system responsiveness! Bitsumoff25, if you want to buy it, cost 25$ normally, and it is free, but you won't be able to use all its features, like switching power plans per program - I think.

Update to my previous post: I fixed the processor issue with a cmd command.

What do you mean???