Should you use a registry cleaner?

[Digerati]

And yet you come back taking comments counter to yours as a personal affront. You are the one who said "once bitten" - now you say you have years experience "using" these products. Then you suggest I am "Promoting them as safe or harmless" when I NEVER said anything such thing!!!!! :shame2:

I am no spring chicken in this regard either - having been an IT technician for 40 plus years (PC tech since the early 90s) hardly suggests my experiences with Registry cleaners in general, and CCleaner specifically is based on "luck". I have no ideal how many computers I have used it on. Many 100s for sure. And over the years, I have run it on my own systems countless times. You cannot suggest it is "luck" that has kept CCleaner from breaking these systems.

Millions and millions of users have run CCleaner on 10s of millions of computers. Where are those broken computers? Why aren't forums flooded with such cases? Why isn't the official Piriform CCleaner Forum full of complaints about CCleaner breaking their computers?

I would sure like to see some examples (or even one at this point) where users ran CCleaner on fully updated and functional computers, and CCleaner broke them. Got any examples suggesting a pattern or trend? No? Typically what you see is users running all sorts of repair programs, scanners for this and that, System Restore, dinking with MSCONFIG and more in an attempt to fix a broken computer - then they run a registry cleaner (typically some magical "optimization tool" that promises to fix the 100s and 100s of "errors" it finds and make your computer run better than new) in the hopes that will "fix everything". CCleaner is NOT a "repair" or "fixit" tool.

The problem is education. But instead of educating, all many want to do is thwart the use and stifle the discussion - keeping users ignorant of the facts. And based on what? Ancient history and a "few" isolated cases? I think that is sad, and counter to the very purpose of these forums.

The problem is also that so many are totally convinced (how I have no clue) that "ALL" Registry cleaners are the same, and so they lump all as evil.

I say this and then I am done here - I would MUCH rather have inexperienced users use CCleaner (which prompts to backup the Registry BEFORE making changes) than have them use Regedit which makes changes in real-time and never prompts to backup the Registry. In fact, it does not even have a backup option, but instead a confusing (for the inexperienced) Export option. And I would MUCH rather they use CCleaner than any other cleaner because (1) it prompts for a backup and (2) it is a very conservative cleaner.

 

[joeten]

I said using and resolving issues caused by these products which should have told you that yes I did use them and that it made no real difference in fact if anything they are in the main not useful to the average user. The exception I took was the the tone of your reply this obviously did not convey itself to you, the fact is I don't care if you use any of these products, I do care that people who may not be as able to sort out any problems that could arise from their use may read this and go ahead and run one and then be faced with a situation where they could loose valuable data or memories.The call for show me the proof where did I say as you do millions of users and of course your promoting the use to the point of I use and don't have problems, have you previously mentioned your years as a tech prior to your last post if you did I missed it.I have no problem with you or anyone having a different opinion but please consider those who don't have your experience which I think can safely be put in the millions and the impact it would have on them to use something with little to no real knowledge of what it does or is capable of.

 

[Digerati]

You cannot "see" or "hear" my tone (or body language) so please go by what I actually say. I go to great lengths to keep the wording in my responses focused on the technical issues - to avoid making it "personal". That's an issue with all written word and it is up to the reader to NOT read into those words what is NOT there.

I "take personal exception" when someone says I said something when clearly I didn't. For example, saying I promoted Registry cleaners (apparently "all" Registry cleaners :roll eyes (sarcasti) as harmless was a total falsehood! Not cool!

have you previously mentioned your years as a tech prior to your last post if you did I missed it.

I do not consider myself a braggart so touting credentials is not something I normally like doing, or seeing. Plus, my credentials are hardly impressive compared to many others on these forums. But, for almost 8 years now, I have included a link in my sig so posters can see and determine for themselves if (1) IT support is not just a hobby for me, (2) I might know a little about what I am talking about when it comes to electronics, electronic hardware, and PCs in particular, (3) so [hopefully] they can trust I have the personal integrity to not intentionally make matters worse, so (4) they can have the confidence to try something that might involved some risks.

Experts are a dime a dozen. That does not mean they are "professionals" nor does it mean they know what they are talking about - especially when it comes to the IT industry - which is many industries within industries. Sadly, there are those who have swapped out a PSU, or assembled a computer who suddenly are calling themselves "experts", or even "technicians". It took me over 2 years of formal classroom, supervised on-the-job, advanced training, then formal testing and hands-on evaluations and certifications before I could call myself a technician. Then I had to keep going back to school for formal training as technologies advanced. But I still would not pretend (and I am NOT saying anyone is) to think I know all there is to know about computers. In fact, the more I learn, the more I realize there is yet to learn - especially true as technologies advance, and the status quo changes.

but please consider those who don't have your experience

EXACTLY my point. We (helpers) are here to teach those with less experience based on our personal hands-on experiences, AND our research - in particular to verify what was once true, still is. It often is not.

may read this and go ahead and run one

Run "one". :banghead:

Right - because "all" Registry cleaners are alike, and evil, right? No!

I do care that people who may not be as able to sort out any problems that could arise from their use may read this and go ahead and run one and then be faced with a situation where they could loose valuable data or memories.

Exactly again!!!! Again you use EXTREME examples that are by no means typical to try and prove a point. A point, BTW, that makes no sense! Why? Because part of properly using CCleaner is making a backup of the Registry before making any changes - again something most specialized malware removal tools never do, and something Regedit does not do either.

Exceptions, especially rare ones, don't make the rule. They may call for precautions or measures to take to ensure success (AKA - training, backing up, having a "plan B", or whatever), but full avoidance with exaggerated scare tactics is, IMO, wrong! If not a "disservice" to our readers.

Of course I want to see proof! This is a "technical forum" dealing with technical facts, technical hardware, software and the Laws of Physics. Not exaggerations, rumors and suppositions. In fact, it is our jobs to squash those!

Registry cleaners are out there. It is clear they are not going away any time soon. It is silly to pretend telling posters they are evil will stop users from trying them - just as it is silly to put a dog in front of kids before leaving the room, telling them to ignore the dog because it "might" bite - then expect them to ignore it.

The right thing to do is to teach the kids how to approach a strange dog and how to play nice with it.

 

[joeten]

I did say if you had mentioned your experience I had missed it, and just like you I have had to do my share of testing and certs also like you I do not consider myself as knowing it all,we do appear to have some very similar Ideas, we just don't agree on this particular subject,put simply for those without the know how they are playing with fire and should stay well away from messing around in the registry in anyway.I hope you find that a less extreme example, I thought I was basically generalising in my previous posts, again the perception of what is written changes with the reader, and if nothing else it will give anyone considering the use of reg cleaners a moment to pause and consider learning more before taking any steps.

 

[niemiro]

Before this descends into an argument over who said what, what they meant by that, whether they were being misinterpreted/misquoted, who has the better credentials/more experience etc. can all discussion on those points please be ended now. I understand that everyone was being civil about it, but it is unnecessary in a technical discussion and we don't wish to go too far off topic.


If you wish to continue to discuss the benefits & risks of registry cleaners, you may continue to do so provided it does not stray into the above areas. From what I have seen, both sides agree that registry cleaners come with some risks (which can be effectively managed with good backups - either by the tool or by the user with enough education), so I believe the real question is whether or not those risks are worth taking. Are there actually any speed/other benefits? Are they actually noticeable to a user if only 100 registry keys are removed out of millions when modern computing power is so great? Do some of the "safer" tools do so little that they offer no noticeable speed benefits?

You may discuss those or any related technical points, post links to articles & research, and discuss conducting any original research to prove or disprove the speed benefits (such as leaving a system for a year then cleaning it to see if there is an immediate speed increase, or conducting a double blind control trial with some test systems only having a nulled copy of a registry cleaner used and seeing if they can be told apart from the active counterparts a while later).

Please avoid opinion-on-opinion debates.

Thank you for your co-operation.

niemiro
~Sysnative Administrator

 

[joeten]

No problem I think I have given as much time to this as is necessary and have agreed to differ.

 

[Digerati]

I thought I was basically generalising in my previous posts

And this is the problem!!!!! By generalizing, "all" cleaners are lumped together as being the same - and evil. And it is just not true, or fair to the legitimate cleaners, or our readers.

and if nothing else it will give anyone considering the use of reg cleaners a moment to pause and consider learning more before taking any steps.

But that is not what is happening. Again, even at the mere mention of CCleaner for cleaning out temp files to free up disk space, many (including those claiming to have extensive experience) jump in with both feet extolling the evils of ALL Registry cleaners with horror stories of all sorts - WITHOUT providing any real advice (other than "don't use") or any opportunity for the posters to learn anything about how to safely use the product.

I fail to see how anyone can "consider learning more" when the message is "avoid at all costs".

I don't have a problem with folks being set in their minds - as long as they have their facts straight, and they are based on TODAY's factual reality. But that is not happening. Contrary to what many want to believe, not all Registry cleaners are the same, yet STILL they are lumped together as if they are. Not all come bundled with malware yet that is used as an excuse to avoid them "all". Not all make changes without backing up first. And last but not least, reputable companies like Piriform and Comodo who have been developing Registry cleaning software for 10 plus years have NOT been sitting on their laurels for the last 10+ years pushing out the same faulty software.

From what I have seen, both sides agree that registry cleaners come with some risks (which can be effectively managed with good backups - either by the tool or by the user with enough education)

for sure, that is what I believe. But sadly, providing "enough education" (or any information! ) is not the goal for those against using these tools. Rather the goal is to stop users from using them entirely. Yet as we have seen in these discussions, many of those same people use these tools on occasion too! :roll eyes (sarcasti

so I believe the real question is whether or not those risks are worth taking. Are there actually any speed/other benefits? Are they actually noticeable to a user if only 100 registry keys are removed out of millions when modern computing power is so great? Do some of the "safer" tools do so little that they offer no noticeable speed benefits?

The problem is, many simply refuse to accept the risks can be "easily" minimized. They can.

As for benefits, most of the time, they are subtle. You don't normally see overall system performance improve, unless the computer has been badly neglected for a long time (but I would not recommend a cleaner for that anyway). But you will often see problems that delay boot times go away, problems installing or removing drivers go away, or problems loading and using some apps that depend on other programs or devices may go away too.

Users should ALWAYS take the hype marketing weenies use to "fluff up" their products with a grain of salt. That said, just because a product does not do all the marketing weenies claim, that does not imply the product is evil, destructive, or malicious, or that it must be avoided at all costs.

 

[joeten]

As I already said agree to disagree on this (I was going to say point) subject as pointed out it is becoming to much he said. If MS,Apple and Linux don't make this product for use on there systems it is a reasonable indication of it not being required. End of my posting.

 

[Digerati]

Wow! Ummm, Apple and Linux don't have registries. And believe it not, many MS FixIt routines are no more than dedicated Registry fixers. So since it appears any excuse (regardless if based on any sort of fact or not) is being used to rationalize positions, I too am done posting.

 

[joeten]

I am aware, my point was they don't mess about with things unnecessarily.