It has begun.... (COVID-19)

His accomplishments are vast and he deserves much respect but he has been wrong on many things, many times. That being said, he is the one I would tap to work on something new and "novel" like this.

He's not the be-all, end-all, perfect source simply because he disagrees with the Trump Administration. Disagreeing with Trump or any POTUS should never be a qualification for anything especially something of this scale.
 
xrobwx71 said:
His accomplishments are vast and he deserves much respect but he has been wrong on many things, many times. That being said, he is the one I would tap to work on something new and "novel" like this.

He's not the be-all, end-all, perfect source simply because he disagrees with the Trump Administration. Disagreeing with Trump or any POTUS should never be a qualification for anything especially something of this scale.
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I think nearly every scientist has been wrong on many things, many times during this pandemic. That is part of the struggle with a novel virus. As more information presents itself, the science evolves, and the health recommendations change to match. Hong Kong scientists were pushing for masks and social distancing there in February, and they mitigated the virus much sooner than we did. They also had the advantage of dealing with SARS in 2003, adapting many of their health practices to address that epidemic, which prepared them for COVID-19 better than most regions. They are also seeing a "spike" now, but their "spike" is about 1000 times less than ours proportionally to population.

Dr. Fauci has made more mistakes than some doctors in other countries, but he at least tries to keep up with the current trends, what is working and what is not, and his advice has been pretty well supported since March. Our country lagged behind others that were successful by 1-2 months, so our scientific knowledge has also tended to lag by several days or even weeks at times. I do not feel it is fair to put the blame on any one person; all of the U.S. leaders could have been better.
 
writhziden said:
expert
I think nearly every scientist has been wrong on many things, many times during this pandemic. That is part of the struggle with a novel virus. As more information presents itself, the science evolves, and the health recommendations change to match. Hong Kong scientists were pushing for masks and social distancing there in February, and they mitigated the virus much sooner than we did. They also had the advantage of dealing with SARS in 2003, adapting many of their health practices to address that epidemic, which prepared them for COVID-19 better than most regions. They are also seeing a "spike" now, but their "spike" is about 1000 times less than ours proportionally to population.

Dr. Fauci has made more mistakes than some doctors in other countries, but he at least tries to keep up with the current trends, what is working and what is not, and his advice has been pretty well supported since March. Our country lagged behind others that were successful by 1-2 months, so our scientific knowledge has also tended to lag by several days or even weeks at times. I do not feel it is fair to put the blame on any one person; all of the U.S. leaders could have been better.
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I completely agree. The expert comment I made, was completely a joke written to gain a laugh or two not to take away from Fauci's accomplishments or career.
 
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This is the latest narrative, that he has been wrong on many things, many times...I've yet to see any convincing proof. No one is perfect, and he is of course but the head of one health program, working within a system he has no control over. In any case, I'll not push this as I don't debate politics...I'll just say it's a shame that a pandemic has become political

A Guy
 
So far, it's as rare as catching Chicken Pox twice. We'll know more with time. You'll always have the anecdotal, I have a friend that "fill in the blank" stories. It's not a rampant problem. It's the same with direct lightning strikes, some survive, most do not. I'm a variables guy, always will be. I will always look for the numbers. Numbers are uncompromising, numbers are not prejudice, numbers are not interested in politics. They are and always will, simply be. The human equation is the paradox here, nothing more. The human equation creates an unfathomable amount of variables, in immunity, behavior, blood types, whos taking Vitamin D and at what doses, Who stubbed their toe and was it related to Covid, it goes on and on.

There are promising reports coming from the UK and here in the US with vaccine development.

Oxford coronavirus vaccine triggers immune response

Experimental COVID-19 vaccine safe, generates immune response

After the vaccine is created, tested and approved, then we'll be able to argue with the anti vaxxers. Yet another human equation variable. On and on......
 
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A YouTube video on the 1918 epidemic - 675,000 died in the US -



The 1918 flu epidemic was called "The Spanish Flu" because the Spanish reported true flu infections and deaths, which were off the charts compared to the reported cases by the rest of the world.

WWI was in progress and no country involved in the Great War would report accurate flu figures, if any figures at all, to keep the enemy in the dark re: potential troop strength.

Spain was neutral during WWI and their media reported actual accurate infection rate and death toll figures, which of course made it appear that Spain had the highest number of cases by far in the world. This was not true at all.

In San Francisco, cops could shoot you if you refused to wear a mask - and they did (shoot people)!
 
Fact check: No, N95 filters are not too large to stop COVID-19 particles

So, anything other than N95 is pretty much worthless. It takes an electron microscope at 200,000x to see the thing.

Even in this article, I don't see how they could "know" some of their claims.

That being said, I am not an anti masker, I have mine in my pocket everywhere I go. If needed I put it on. I do not wear it in my truck or when I am outside away from people.
 
xrobwx71 said:
So, anything other than N95 is pretty much worthless. It takes an electron microscope at 200,000x to see the thing.
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That's what I heard too, there is so much confusion about the efficacy of masks and if they make a difference. From my understanding, the general purpose masks most people wear are designed to lessen the chance you spread it to others, but do not prevent you have contracting the virus.

xrobwx71 said:
That being said, I am not an anti masker, I have mine in my pocket everywhere I go. If needed I put it on. I do not wear it in my truck or when I am outside away from people.
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Same here, however, I don't wear a mask in circumstances where I'm not required to. For example, I don't wear a mask in the gym nor while running outside.
 
So, N95 is meant to protect the user, it is the most easy effective every day for medical people (they have respirators that are more effective). The idea of everyone wearing a cloth mask is to protect others from your respiration and particles. The combination of a mask on both individuals also has some limited protective power for the wearer as respiration particles that may escape an infected persons mask, may be caught by the uninfected persons mask.


This virus is unique, so infectious, yet so fragile. The virus is encased in fatty molecules, that is why it survives. But remove the fatty shell, and it quickly dies. That is why 20 seconds of soapy, warm water, hand washing is so effective. It removes the fatty shell, and the virus dies.

If only 80% of people wore masks, the infections would drop to one twelfth the rate. When the experts originally said we don't have to wear a mask, it was because of a severe shortage of N95 masks for health care workers. Once those numbers improved, it was recommended to wear cloth masks. Again to save N95 for front line workers, but also since anyone could cobble together a cloth mask.

One of the worse things that happened in the US (there were/are many) is that masks became politicized. This lead to a large group of people refusing to wear a mask. It's an ongoing issue that along with the other failures, has kept us from any progress. The longer it goes, the worse people will behave, and the longer this goes on. A vaccine, when it comes, is not a "cure", it will not be the end of all this, it will just hopefully slowly allow us to get it better under control, so life can return to more normal. I just wish all the politics, false information, belief in wild conspiracies, instead of just listening to scientists would stop. Alas, it will just get worse, and we all suffer

End of rant...for now ;)

A Guy
 
You are so right about politicizing things. For instance, Hydroxychloroquine. If one person had not mentioned it, the drug would be in widespread use there would be zero controversy. I can find videos and experts who say it does not work, I can find videos and experts who say it absolutely works. Now, it's been politicized and in five seconds, its relegated to a belief system or "side system" instead of fact or science.

The interesting thing is, which experts do we pick to listen to, and why do we pick that particular expert? I can find as many experts and videos who refute the efficacy of the mask versus the virus.

The other issue is Liberty. Liberty is an almost perfect concept in itself but then add the human condition/equation? It's chaotic.

Once a person has a belief system in place, you'll find it very hard to change it.

This is one reason I love computers. Numbers don't pick sides. You may come across the occasional "Ghost in the Machine" but even those are based on numbers.
 
Which experts do we listen to? Look at their pedigree. I don't take anything at face value, I look into the methodology, and then who/where the info is coming from. As far as Hydroxychloroquine, if it worked, it worked, but it doesn't, and in fact can cause great complications. Again the info that it doesn't work comes from correctly run testing using established procedures. We usually aren't privy to drug testing as it's long, boring work that goes on in the background. We don't see the fits and starts, we see the outcome, the evidence, the results of all the testing. These scientists don't have an agenda, they would love for the drug to have helped, doctors too, but it didn't

Hydroxychloroquine can’t stop COVID-19. It’s time to move on, scientists say

Do a search for Experts who say Hydroxychloroquine works against Covid-19, or Scientists who say Hydroxychloroquine works against Covid-19

The drug would not be in widespread use, it's not only ineffective against Covid, it's dangerous. Please share the experts who say it works

French doctor who championed hydroxychloroquine to explain his actions to lawmakers

France Says No To Hydroxychloroquine Prescription After Lancet Study

I don't mean to come off as confrontational, I'm just so frustrated with all the false information. Experts do not post on Facebook, or in blogs, they publish scientific papers for review. They lay out the established scientific methodology they use, the scope of the study that is the recognized correct procedure for such studies. They don't use their information on a limited group, using improper techniques, and inferred results from that inadequate testing.

Hopefully we will develop, discover therapeutics as well, as that will mitigate the severity, and long term issues from the virus. I see the numbers scroll along the bottom of the screen during the news, worldwide x number recovered...they may no longer test positive from Covid-19, but how many have reduced lung capacity, heart damage, cognitive issues, depression, etc. Are they "recovered", or part of a growing number of "damaged" individuals. Even if this virus did not cause severe reaction, and death seemingly randomly, you wouldn't want to have it and live with the after effects. Keeps me at home, going out to grocery shop, fast food drive through, a ride in the car. I'll be 60 in October, meds for high blood pressure (under control), overweight (lost 25 pounds in last 6 months), I don't want to get it and be one that ends up on a respirator...

A Guy
 
The question was not which experts do you listen to. The point was what people in mass listen to and the duality of information out there.

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19

Study finds hydroxychloroquine may have boosted survival, but other researchers have doubts

That's just a few.

Again. I'm simply making a point of the duality of info available and the human condition in which we as humans pick what we believe to be true whether it's true or not.

By the way, I've been a subscriber to The Lancelet for years.

A Guy said:
Keeps me at home, going out to grocery shop, fast food drive through, a ride in the car. I'll be 60 in October, meds for high blood pressure (under control), overweight (lost 25 pounds in last 6 months), I don't want to get it and be one that ends up on a respirator...
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I hope you don't get it either my friend.
 

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