It has begun.... (COVID-19)

The question was not which experts do you listen to. The point was what people in mass listen to and the duality of information out there.

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

Treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and combination in patients hospitalized with COVID-19

Study finds hydroxychloroquine may have boosted survival, but other researchers have doubts

That's just a few.

Again. I'm simply making a point of the duality of info available and the human condition in which we as humans pick what we believe to be true whether it's true or not.

By the way, I've been a subscriber to The Lancelet for years.


I hope you don't get it either my friend.

Thanks, and true about what people listen to, like say someone with great power and an agenda... From your links

" In a large-scale retrospective analysis "

The most accepted and definitive way to determine treatment efficacy is a double-blind, randomized clinical trial. But this type of study takes a long time to design, execute and analyze, so observational research is used to get as best an answer as soon as possible.

Observational research can never completely account for biases inherent in how physicians make different decisions to treat different patients, the leaders said. It's not unusual that results vary in different studies, and no one study should be considered on its own

At the root of the conflict is the fundamental principle that the FDA uses to evaluate drugs. Decisions are based almost entirely on what is known as a randomized controlled trial, in which patients are randomly assigned to receive a treatment or not. Other types of studies have, again and again, failed to deliver accurate information about medicines’ benefits and risks, and are used sparingly in making medical decisions. Three randomized studies have now shown no benefit for hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients.

The study that sparked the latest controversy was anything but randomized. Not only was it not randomized, outside experts noted, but patients who received hydroxychloroquine were also more likely to get steroids, which appear to help very sick patients with Covid-19. That is likely to have influenced the central finding of the Henry Ford study: that death rates were 50% lower among patients in hospitals treated with hydroxychloroquine.


With these type studies, you can get good info as long as there are no other mitigating factors, almost impossible unless the stringent testing procedures are used. I'm sure the authors of the original paper were not trying to push the drug, but by making their "results" public, they did in fact put info out there that had not been vetted.

It's like the "Russian vaccine", there just has not physically been enough time passed to make sure a vaccine is effective and safe. I know we have different guidelines here, but taking shortcuts and rushing to conclusions because of the severity of the virus can result in making matters worse. Before the pandemic 1/5 to 2/5 of Americans questioned the safety of vaccines. Right now the number of people who say they will get a vaccine when it becomes available is 42%! Couple that with those who are unsure, and it drops to 36%. Now imagine if this Russian vaccine ends up being ineffective, or worse, people have bad side effects, or die...it would be a disaster! It's said that 70% to 90% of the country would need to be vaccinated to achieve the herd immunity needed to stop COVID-19 from spreading. The seasonal flu vaccine we have now is just 20% to 60% effective.

Vaccine development usually takes 10-15 years. Previously the Mumps vaccine was the quickest to be approved...it took them 4 years

We're going to need more toilet paper ;)

Take care everyone, if we're here to b*tch about it, we're still alive

A Guy
 
Take care everyone, if we're here to b*tch about it, we're still alive
This is so true. Yet, I get in my truck at 5:30AM turn on the radio--COVID COVID COVID. On the radio and TV at work--COVID COVID COVID. Truly I'm sick of hearing about it.

I wonder when we are going to get concerned and do something about Heart Disease as it causes 635,260 deaths annually in the US. They say we need a mask mandate? We also need a food, diet, and exercise mandate if we were really concerned about people. Yet another example of chaotic, destructive human behavior. (When I say we I mean the Lawmakers, not you or I.)

Even if we had a national mask mandate, it's still up to each state, county, and municipalities. In my own county, you have Panama City enacting and enforcing a strict mask mandate. Panama City Beach waits until the end of the tourist season to mandate masks. We had 350,000 extra people here on the weekend of July 4th. The Beach City Council waits until August (3000 extra people) to mandate masks. Duh. The county itself has no mandate.

I'll go ahead and say it. Lots of people are stupid or at least their behavior displays it. ;)
 
@A Guy Not everything is bad news ;)

Middletown Woman, 107, Beat Coronavirus And Spanish Flu

There's two sisters who should be studied!

Loved that story of the 2 Sisters. To beat vfc the COVID-19 at 107 has to be a pretty special, positive women. Makes me want to keep moving..to be as a active as I can. 😊
I have an 84-year-old customer, a home builder, tested positive for COVID, had mild flu symptoms for a week, quarantined the 14 days, and was back in our store yesterday looking as good as he did before.

Another customer of mine; Her 86 year old Father in a nursing home also survived with no apparent ill after-effects according to his doctors.

Truly a lot of good news out there!
 
I have an 84-year-old customer, a home builder, tested positive for COVID, had mild flu symptoms for a week, quarantined the 14 days, and was back in our store yesterday looking as good as he did before.

Another customer of mine; Her 86 year old Father in a nursing home also survived with no apparent ill after-effects according to his doctors.

Truly a lot of good news out there!

That's amazing!! Good for them!!! 😊 it's nice when their life isn't cut short by a virus...
 
This is so true. Yet, I get in my truck at 5:30AM turn on the radio--COVID COVID COVID. On the radio and TV at work--COVID COVID COVID. Truly I'm sick of hearing about it.

I wonder when we are going to get concerned and do something about Heart Disease as it causes 635,260 deaths annually in the US. They say we need a mask mandate? We also need a food, diet, and exercise mandate if we were really concerned about people. Yet another example of chaotic, destructive human behavior. (When I say we I mean the Lawmakers, not you or I.)

I'll go ahead and say it. Lots of people are stupid or at least their behavior displays it. ;)

Understandable, being tired of it is one thing causing some people to help spread the virus. They are tired of it, so they decide it's no longer a deadly virus. When you think of what Londoners went through during the Blitz, or even what people in the US gave up for the War effort, it makes some of us seem very selfish. As does the "My body my choice..." never mind they are also making a choice for everyone they ever come in contact with.

The problem with Heart Disease, and obesity is that a large proportion of the causes are self inflicted, as opposed to a virus we never choose to get. This is an educational thing, and alas, it's not for profits fighting that fight, with limited funding

I have said for years, after making in home service calls for 30+ years, and dealing with customers, is that there is a decided lack of common sense in society...and yes, stupid people. Thank goodness for the good people who while they might be outnumbered, make a difference that is orders of magnitude better than the idiots.

This was a local story a few days ago

VIDEO: High school football players help man in wheelchair up Mission Peak

A Guy
 
The problem with Heart Disease, and obesity is that a large proportion of the causes are self inflicted, as opposed to a virus we never choose to get. This is an educational thing, and alas, it's not for profits fighting that fight, with limited funding

A Guy


Keeping with my Human Behavior theme; choosing NOT to wear a mask in public increases the chance of contracting/spreading the virus and in turn, increases the chance for death is a self-inflicted human behavior.

You mention profits. What would happen to the food industry if there were a national eat healthy and exercise mandate and enforcement? No more Mc'ds, Burger King, Coca-Cola, etc. Oh, the chaos. We'd be back to prohibition and the Mafia would rise again with bootlegging cheeseburgers. The cheeseburger Prohis would come by and bust open your cupboard and take your cheeseburgers. ;):p
 
Well my question is what builds a strong immunity? Am I missing the point of T-cells? Some have more then others but diet and exercise would help? I haven't done my research but you have @A Guy 🙃. That's me being simple minded in my conclusion that healthy people survive this coronavirus. Oh well...we still have much to learn...Scientists don't even know how the brain works which opens the many different illnesses that people have.
 
Unfortunately healthy doesn't mean severity of symptoms, nor survival, but the vast majority of deaths are people 60 and older (said to be 95%+). Some with underlying health issues, some without. More than 40% of deaths have come from nursing homes.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

B cells produce antibodies that are capable of binding to the virus. The body also stores long lived "memory" B cells that produce those antibodies, that attack if the virus comes back. T cells, patrol the body seeking out and destroying infected cells, to disrupt the virus’s ability to replicate. These immune cells can also endure for years. Antibodies generally have a shelf life, that is they are not long lasting. Apparently people who have more severe symptoms have more, longer lasting antibodies. But how long antibodies last has yet to be seen. T Cells however, tend to be longer lasting

Immune T Cells May Offer Lasting Protection Against COVID-19

The COVID-19 vaccines in development mainly focus on antibodies. These proteins are made by B cells and would ideally latch onto the virus and prevent it from entering cells. T cells fight infections in two different ways. "Helper" T cells prompt B cells and other immune defenses into action, "Killer" T cells target and destroy infected cells. The severity of disease can depend on the strength of these T cell responses. Killer T Cells are the soldiers, Helper T Cells are the Generals.

Antigens are like identification tags that tell your immune system information about your cells and any intruders. Healthy cells have antigens on their surfaces. They let T Cells know that they are not intruders. If a cell is infected with a virus, there will be pieces of virus antigens on its surface. This is a signal for the Killer T Cell that lets it know this is a cell that must be destroyed

B Cell and T Cell "memory" cells develop once a virus is beaten. These memory Cells are long lived and remain dormant until they recognize the same virus again. At that time the response is faster and stronger. People who have not been exposed to Covid-19 will have no memory cells, and no protection. However, some non Covid-19 infected people show signs of Covid-19 type T Cells, showing that a response to a previous Coronavirus infection may give some people a defense even if they have not been infected by Covid-19. Sars, Mers and some cases of the common cold are caused by Coronaviruses as well. Some COVID-19 patients with mild or no symptoms have generated T cells against the virus, even in patients who have no detectable antibodies. This is a good sign.

So you can't develop T Cells in any other way but by being infected by Covid-19, or possibly a different Coronavirus. But remember, Covid-19 is called a Novel Coronavirus, that is, it had never been detected before, and is different to any previous Coronavirus. There could however be some crossover, hence the non infected people who have similar T Cells.

I know way too much at this point, but it's good to have scientific data, and not just "I heard"...

A Guy
 

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